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Old 13 Mar 2002, 19:21 (Ref:234455)   #1
Dan Friel
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Dan Friel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDan Friel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Formula Honda

plenty of chat about Forumla Honda (600) going about at the moment. I'm still a bit unconvinced about the series (why not race in F Fordies somewhere).. I think marshalling half hour races in the wet and James Pickford strolling off into the distance have something to do with it... but i'll take a fresh opinion this season.. so, can someone help convince me and answer the following queries?

This years calendar?
How much does a car cost (new and old)?
How may entrants this year?
Probable running costs?
Why is F Honda better than F Ford?
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Old 13 Mar 2002, 21:19 (Ref:234548)   #2
DSMJUNIOR
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DSMJUNIOR should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
10 meetings, 13 races. Cadwell, Pembrey, Croft, Oulton, Mallory,Snet (2),Lydden, Brands, Donington.

New 17K + VAT. S/H 8k up.

12 or 14 definitely paid up, hopefully about 18, possibly more. (this series lacks proper publicity!!)

7k per season upwards. most expensive bit entries, testing fees. (thanks Octagon!)

for the answer to your last question, try to watch (and hear) both cars in action, you'll know. For starters:

Fraction of the cost.

14000 rpm; 6 speed sequential box, V little more than a family saloon engine/ box.

Slicks and wings.

I've driven both. For me there is no comparison.I am amazed that Honda don't get behind this, they could consign FF to the history books where it belongs. Please go and watch and make you own mind up.Better still, spend a couple of hundred or so and have a go yourself.
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Old 13 Mar 2002, 21:33 (Ref:234558)   #3
Dan Friel
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try to watch (and hear) both cars in action, you'll know
Ok, why are F Hondas better for spectators / drivers? I'm not sure that slicks and wings make them better to watch, but is this better for driver development?
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Old 13 Mar 2002, 21:43 (Ref:234565)   #4
27tim
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All I think when I see FH is that I'd hate to haeva shunt in one, they look a bit on the dangerous side!
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Old 13 Mar 2002, 22:03 (Ref:234580)   #5
DSMJUNIOR
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why do you say that 27Tim?

Dan, I would say it's different for driver development. A car that slides as soon as you turn it can teach a huge degree of car control technique, I think. you don't get that to the same extent with the Hondas I agree. However, where do you take that skill? there is precious little else where the cars are so 'loose'.

from my experience spectators prefer FH to FF because they look and sound like the big boys toys and the racing is generally close enough without looking stupid. Do people really enjoy watching half the field tangle wheels and crash? Maybe they do!

it's all a matter of opinion but i would say again, try it yourself, or at least watch one run and you can decide for yourself.
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 00:21 (Ref:234661)   #6
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DSMJUNIOR,

To me they just look unsafe, I had a look at one a while back at brands and it didn't exaclty look substantial to me, not a great deal of crash protection also the drivers head looked very exposed. I wouldn't want to race one. But thats just me

I do admit I hardly studied it though, I could be totally wrong.

Last edited by 27tim; 14 Mar 2002 at 00:24.
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 01:29 (Ref:234682)   #7
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FFord consigned to the history books where it belongs?? What planet are you from?? Just one other thing DSM......what are you talking about?
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 11:35 (Ref:234913)   #8
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I'll be doing selected races in both this year. Oulton and Anglsey. The FFord is an old one, but I won't get near newer with my budget.

As far as I'm concerned, maybe the FHonda's are a bit unsafe in a shunt, but so is the 79 van dieman I'm racing, so it evens out. If I wanted safe I'd drive the FPA, or Zip ford (no, wait, that's just hyped as safe)

If ever single seater had a spike in the centre of the steering wheel, maybe driving standards would improve, FFord only had loads of big wheels tangling crashes because of the young hot-shoes trying to prove something, fill the cars with middle aged business men, and notice how few bumps there are (CFPA??)
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 12:11 (Ref:234936)   #9
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OK Tomgreen, you're a FF fan. tell me what's inherently good about the Formula? I don't mean it's marketing or it's position in the hierarchy of the sport. I mean in terms of chassis sophistication, engine specs. driver satisfaction, track performance, value for money and so on.

I appreciate that one good thing is that there are lots of easily affordable cars after all these years but that's not relevant to now or the future.

I'm also aware that FH is not run or promoted properly and that the cars could be improved. But if, say, FH was run as and achieved the same levels of performance and quality overall as the Radicals have in Sports, how would FF compare then?
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 12:22 (Ref:234946)   #10
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NO, you started this by saying FFord should be where it belongs-in the history books. You should be the one explaining yourself. Just why should it be confined to the history books.
The reason i like FFord is because the racing is so good. Now you can correst me but i thought most SPECTATORS go to watch racing........
Now if you can produce a Formula Honda festival at Brands Hatch then maybe i might get off my arse and come and watch.
PS Radicals filled a gap in the market.....FH just added yet another single seater formula that will fizzle out in a few years like FPA.
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 14:56 (Ref:235042)   #11
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I guess you don't have anything to say.

The overall quality of racing has little to do with the car being raced A full grid of FH, FPA or whatever has the possibility of producing close, good to watch racing - even cicus acts like the Legends. I wonder if you just like the accidents?

My point is that, from a technical and affordability point of view, FH, radicals and other motorcycle engined racecars make far more sense. The sad thing is that because of vested interests in the sport and the shortsightedness that Honda has always shown, certainly with regard to its cars in the UK, the ultimate potential will never be realised.

I would ask you to consider, from a competitor's point of view, the idea of a relatively simple composite tub, with small but genuine wings, durable slicks powered by any one of a range of engines with multi-valves, multi-cams, sequential box, injection, digital programmable ignition, forced induction, which can be picked up for hundreds of pounds, run all season with little maintenance and would destroy a FF on the track and be far more rewarding to drive. (bear in mind that a FH is little slower than a Zetec now, even with it's tiny engine).

And all this could be done for maybe a quarter of what it costs to race Zetecs in the UK.

I see that you're only looking at this from a spectator's point of view. in that case you're right. Full grids are essential and FH won't have that in the foreseeable because of the lack of proper marketing etc. Most spectators also go for the accidents so FF will continue to survive.

One final point. I know quite a few DRIVERS who've driven both FF and FH. I don't know any who prefer the Ford. Any drivers out there who would correct me? (polite and reasoned answers only , please)
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 15:56 (Ref:235097)   #12
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Formula Honda: In Argentina we have (or had) a FH. It started at mid-90s and later declined; now looks dissapeared. I remember the best year was 1994 when the dominators were Esteban Tuero and Emiliano Spataro between others.
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 17:42 (Ref:235172)   #13
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Originally posted by DSMJUNIOR
I am amazed that Honda don't get behind this, they could consign FF to the history books where it belongs.
I don't really care for the arguement over FH v FF but why do you think that FF should be consigned to the history books? Several people have asked this question, but its been ignored in replies. When you answer that question, then proceed with the rest of the discussion.
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 18:14 (Ref:235180)   #14
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AndyF should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAndyF should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The Formula Ford cars are very popular, especially as classic FFord - it will be interesting to see if the Formula Honda cars survive!?
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Old 14 Mar 2002, 18:37 (Ref:235196)   #15
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formula fords don't seem to be so popular this year if the entry list for the main series is to go by.
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