[Official] Japanese Grand Prix 2022: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 18 of 22

[bjohnsonsmith]

So congrats to Max, WDC for the second time and back yo back. After the race was over, I thought that was it and the championship decider would be at COTA.

I had to go out after the chequered flag, got back home a few minutes ago to discover he had been awarded full points and it was game over.

Apparently the FIA are saying reduced points are only applied if a suspended race can not be resumed.

[gert]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Apparently the FIA are ...

... making up rules as they see fit. AGAIN!

[Adam43]

I haven’t seen. What went on with full/half points thing?
Was it under 75% distance?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gert

... making up rules as they see fit. AGAIN!

Regarding the FIA's decision to award full points, because reduced points are only applied if a suspended race can not be resumed, Andrew Benson wrote in his live report, 11:06: ''it seems that this protocol was inadvertently left out of the rules when they were rewritten over last winter following the controversial Belgian Grand Prix, when a result was declared despite no racing taking place.''

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/58920165

[Adam43]

So it was 28 laps, should have been 53.

Originally Posted by 6.5

If a race is suspended under Article 41, and cannot be resumed, no points will be awarded if the leader has completed two laps or less, half points will be awarded if the leader has completed more than two laps but less than 75% of the original race distance and full points will be awarded if the leader has completed 75% or more of the original race distance.
…

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2020-12-16.pdf

But full points.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Apparently the FIA are saying reduced points are only applied if a suspended race can not be resumed.

So this is full points because it could have been resumed?

So, er, why wasn’t it?

What am I missing?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I haven’t seen. What went on with full/half points thing?
Was it under 75% distance?

The race was just over half distance.
Full points were awarded.

"the FIA said that reduced points only applied if a suspended race could not be resumed."

This scenario was not included in the recent rewrite.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Regarding the FIA's decision to award full points, because reduced points are only applied if a suspended race can not be resumed, Andrew Benson wrote in his live report, 11:06: ''it seems that this protocol was inadvertently left out of the rules when they were rewritten over last winter following the controversial Belgian Grand Prix, when a result was declared despite no racing taking place.''

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/58920165

Oh, yeah I see I have just linked and quoted the 2021 rules. I’m out of date.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

So this is full points because it could have been resumed?

So, er, why wasn’t it?

What am I missing?

Full points because it was resumed.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Regarding the FIA's decision to award full points, because reduced points are only applied if a suspended race can not be resumed, Andrew Benson wrote in his live report, 11:06: ''it seems that this protocol was inadvertently left out of the rules when they were rewritten over last winter following the controversial Belgian Grand Prix, when a result was declared despite no racing taking place.''

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/58920165

Actually looked at the 2022 regs. https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2022-04-29.pdf

Seems that they really don’t like the half points thing anymore.

Although I am still not fully following. Aren’t we column 3?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Actually looked at the 2022 regs. https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2022-04-29.pdf

Seems that they really don’t like the half points thing anymore.

Although I am still not fully following. Aren’t we column 3?

I would have thought it was column three.

[chillibowl]

Just watching it now…the penalty to chuck puts Max on top for the title. He’s clearly the best driver out there right now!

Congrats Max!

Odd post race interviews as everyone figured out what had happened. i love that nothing is ever normal with this sport!

[chillibowl]

Props to championship chair!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Full points because it was resumed.

because I didn’t watch the race I’m not quite sure what you’re on about.

So they suspended the race, resumed it and the suspended it again it? So that’s why it was OK?

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I would have thought it was column three.

Yeah. I’ll wait till there is a decent summary in a race report not from just after the race.

Whatever this is still relevant

Originally Posted by Adam43

Congratulations Max.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

because I didn’t watch the race I’m not quite sure what you’re on about.

So they suspended the race, resumed it and the suspended it again it? So that’s why it was OK?

No. They suspended the race. Then because it was able to be resumed, full points were awarded.

It was not suspended again, it ran to the full time allocated and was more than half distance.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Adam43

because I didn’t watch the race I’m not quite sure what you’re on about.

So they suspended the race, resumed it and the suspended it again it? So that’s why it was OK?


Yeah. I’ll wait till there is a decent summary in a race report not from just after the race.

Whatever this is still relevant

This is where it gets stupid. It wasn't suspended a second time - it ran out of time to finish, so the chequer was shown. So in true F1 style, the over complex rules (that were re-written after the Spa mess) means that technically, this race is full points as soon as it was resumed.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

No.

Or, yes that is pretty much it! They did stop it restart it and then stop it again before full distance! Wasn’t a bad guess.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This is where it gets stupid. It wasn't suspended a second time - it ran out of time to finish, so the chequer was shown. So in true F1 style, the over complex rules (that were re-written after the Spa mess) means that technically, this race is full points as soon as it was resumed.

Thanks. It was at the time limit.

So when people are referring to the bit in the rules that were left out by mistake it is something to do with a race been called due to one of the time rules rather than just stopping?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Or, yes that is pretty much it! They did stop it restart it and then stop it again before full distance! Wasn’t a bad guess.

So when people are referring to the bit in the rules that were left out by mistake it is something to do with a race been called due to one of the time rules rather than just stopping.

Stopped when it reaches the end (of alloted time) is not the same as being suspended again. This was explained previously. What is the funny aspect that I am missing?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Lets see if we can clear this up.

A race of 53 laps or 2 hour race clock within a 3 hour duration limit. The Race clock and the 3 hour duration clocks both start at the same time (lights out).

Graded points is where a race is stopped and unable to be resumed within the above time frame.

In this case the race clock was stopped with the red flag, but once it synced with the 3 hour duration clock, it re-started
The race was resumed and ran to a completion of the 2 hour race clock, hence the checkered flag.

As the rules are written, this results in full race points.

Was it an omission on the FIA's part not to have the distance covered points grading included for this scenario... yes/no/maybe .... We will know for sure on the release of next seasons rules.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Stopped when it reaches the end (of alloted time) is not the same as being suspended again. This was explained previously. What is the funny aspect that I am missing?

As has been clarified with F1, there is an issue with how the rules are written after the post-Spa we-write

Less than 75% distance should be half points. But they've only written in about the race being suspended causing the shortened distance, and negated the part about the race running to time causing the shortened distance (which was there in the pre-Spa re-write).

So what F1 has done is technically correct, but is not what was intended. This is why neither Red Bull or Max really understood they were champions - because under the old rules they wouldn't be, and under the intention of the new rules, wouldn't be, but are because nobody caught the limited wording.

Using the current rules you can actually still create a Spa situation by suspending the race after 1 lap, then allowing it to go back to SC with 2 minutes before the 3 hour limit, and you'd get full points because the race was not suspended again - thus creating the same situation it was trying to avoid last year.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I haven’t seen. What went on with full/half points thing?
Was it under 75% distance?

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Lets see if we can clear this up.

A race of 53 laps or 2 hour race clock within a 3 hour duration limit. The Race clock and the 3 hour duration clocks both start at the same time (lights out).

Graded points is where a race is stopped and unable to be resumed within the above time frame.

In this case the race clock was stopped with the red flag, but once it synced with the 3 hour duration clock, it re-started
The race was resumed and ran to a completion of the 2 hour race clock, hence the checkered flag.

As the rules are written, this results in full race points.

Was it an omission on the FIA's part not to have the distance covered points grading included for this scenario... yes/no/maybe .... We will know for sure on the release of next seasons rules.

Thanks.

[AndreasDavour]

If anyone was confused by the points, they should have followed the Sky coverage. Crofty just wouldn't shut up about the points permutations, so no way to miss it there.

[AndreasDavour]

Congraulations to Max for the win. Congratulations to the whole team for a great effort. Their car is obviously extremely efficient and the drag is obviously perfect. Let's now just hope the bozos at FIA can manage to handle the finance thing correctly as well.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

And, for the second year running, Max Verstappen wins the championship based on the wording of the rulebook (something about the word 'resumption' meaning they get full points). Not a particularly satisfying way to win it, with Johnny Herbert telling him he is champion in an interview and him still not really believing it, but obviously he would have won it next race anyway, and that is a 100% fully-deserved title which absolutely cements his name among the greats of Formula 1 history.

I can't agree on your first point. Last year he was awarded the championship DESPITE the wording of the rule book. This year the rules was correctly applied and he is champion. I do agree that he has fully deserved the championship this year.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

As has been clarified with F1, there is an issue with how the rules are written after the post-Spa we-write

Less than 75% distance should be half points. But they've only written in about the race being suspended causing the shortened distance, and negated the part about the race running to time causing the shortened distance (which was there in the pre-Spa re-write).

So what F1 has done is technically correct, but is not what was intended. This is why neither Red Bull or Max really understood they were champions - because under the old rules they wouldn't be, and under the intention of the new rules, wouldn't be, but are because nobody caught the limited wording.

Using the current rules you can actually still create a Spa situation by suspending the race after 1 lap, then allowing it to go back to SC with 2 minutes before the 3 hour limit, and you'd get full points because the race was not suspended again - thus creating the same situation it was trying to avoid last year.

That seems like a fair summary. Sadly the rule book has evolved over many years, with patches being added every time they discover a problem. This makes for an unduly complicated rule book and the possibility of unintended consequences due to someone not foreseeing how all the possibilities might pan out. The whole thing needs a complete re-write.

But at least on this occasion the rules have been applied as-written, so that's a major step forward.

[S griffin]

So once again the title is decided by a dubious decision. I don't see how Leclerc gained an advantage since Checo closed up again. At least though this wasn't the last race, so Max would still have claimed the title anyway. We knew it was coming

Seems the FIA maybe didn't make the teams aware enough about all the red flag rule changes at the beginning of the season. Could have done without this confusion

The tractor on the track wasn't ideal, but Gasly shouldn't have been going that fast, especially with double waved yellows. So he deserves his share of the blame too

Great race by some further down. Both Alpines, especially Gasly was on it. Great to see Vettel in the points and nice to see Latifi get a couple after changing tyres at the right time and keeping a sensible head after that. Imagine though if Mick's tyre gamble had worked though?