F1 at a crossroads - the future or the past ?

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by miatanut

I would define it as something where F1 can be on the bleeding edge of something that has a reasonable chance of ending up on road cars after the bugs get worked out.

Looking at transmissions, the "flappy paddle" gearboxes which cost Ferrari a few races that first year but now appear (in their proper dry clutch form) in a number of high-end (but well under $750,000) cars would be an example.

Developing and refining technologies that will only become accessible for the absolute upper-class is not really 'road relevant', is it? They might justify Ferrari's presence in the series, but leave Renault, Honda and sometimes even Mercedes-Benz in an impossible situation.

The above indicates that a top-bottom management of road relevant innovations is very difficult. Apart from creating the climate in which teams face the same or comparable issues as car manufacturers do - no spec parts, low-downforce but closed-wheel aerodynamics, long lasting all-weather tyres and the need for low fuel consumption and high fuel-efficiency - Formula One can mainly be relevant for the automotive industry as a consequence.
For me, this is not a huge problem. The need for Formula One to be primarily relevant for the automotive industry does not remove the possibility of relevancy for other industries and thus being a prototype series.

[chillibowl]

does tech have to filter from F1 directly to road cars for it to be considered relevant?

surely F1 influences other forms of motorsports which in turn influences road cars. rather each stage the tech hits as it filters down it becomes more cost effective and thus more applicable to road cars.

Singapore, like any major urban center really, where noise, pollution, and costs (parking Insurance etc) means car ownership rates are declining, i would think F1's most immediate impact is that it serves as an advertisement for car culture.

my experience with F1 is from Montreal and when F1 comes to town streets are closed off, cars are on display and on parade everywhere. it's a celebration of car ownership.

[Peter Mallett]

Whilst the technology is very interesting. The entire Formula 1 Championship has lost its relevance.

If you are interested in fuel saving/KERS/Whatever, the last thing on your mind is racing. I mean what has charging around as fast as you can got to do with saving the planet?

F1 is not at a crossroads. It's always been about making things go fast. What's happened is that the powers that be have seen fit to try to make it green.

It's Bulldooos.

[VIVA GT]

With regard to the road relevance discussion. I wonder if there are any Mercedes (road car) owners out who have been told by their garage that a new steering wheel will resolve their electrical problems, and they still believe the garage?

[Tucky]

The problem with not being able to push is more to do with the tyres going off quickly right now; more durable tyres would mean drivers pushing more than they do currently. And if the fuel saving is really stopping cars racing then IMO they should slightly increase the fuel allowance, get rid of the fuel flow limit and just say for every amount of fuel used per lap, at least x percent of power should come from the electrical hybrid part rather than the engine. That way you get drivers not worrying about fuel consumption as much whilst still being green.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Whilst the technology is very interesting. The entire Formula 1 Championship has lost its relevance.

If you are interested in fuel saving/KERS/Whatever, the last thing on your mind is racing. I mean what has charging around as fast as you can got to do with saving the planet?

F1 is not at a crossroads. It's always been about making things go fast. What's happened is that the powers that be have seen fit to try to make it green.on

It's Bulldooos.

Oh, yeah. F1 and Green values is like a marriage between people who don't speak the same language. However, if you defy the Green trend, you antagonise sponsors or you don't get as many sponsors as you could. These big multinationals like to play it that they are greener than Kermit the Frog - even when they are not. Which means the sport jumping the Green bandwagon is inevitable (after a delayed response given the insular nature of F1).

[Peter Mallett]

No argument on that point, but the relavance is the problem. Take a look at the thread stats from Singapore. It appears that nobody watched the race.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

No argument on that point, but the relavance is the problem. Take a look at the thread stats from Singapore. It appears that nobody watched the race.

But is it working ? Do you know anybody at all who would naturally associate Formula One with the green agenda ? Excess and the extreme waste of very expensive resources are so deeply ingrained in the DNA of F1 that I don't think they can ever be shaken off.

[GTRMagic]

You have a dozen or so of the best drivers in their best form on the planet in super high technology machinery.. and each are competitive at different events in their own right. One some of the greatest tracks in the world! Across the world!

As a spectacle, F1 is the same as it ever was, the pinnacle of the sport, leading the way in technology, stuff that is already in road cars (Mazda 6 has a regenerative braking system already..)

And yet there is are issues too..

The 2014 F1 cars sound absolutely emasculated.. the guttural roar of the V8 or V10 is gone... and the need for Barry Boffin to sit on the pitwall and call instructions to change knob b25 to setting Y64 makes me wonder when a driver is going to yell out 'BATTLESHIP'..

Just because the series isnt exactly how we might like it shouldnt be a reason to turn it off should it?

I mean, Mr Vettel isnt winning every race, so that's pretty awesome!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Just because the series isnt exactly how we might like it shouldnt be a reason to turn it off should it?

TV viewing audiences are inexorably declining. People are already turning off in their droves... and the sport is failing to attract new viewers in the form of a younger demographic. We may be firing in all directions here, but there's no question that this thing is in trouble.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by davyboy

TV viewing audiences are inexorably declining. People are already turning off in their droves... and the sport is failing to attract new viewers in the form of a younger demographic. We may be firing in all directions here, but there's no question that this thing is in trouble.

Yes that is right imo.

The standard comment I reel off to anyone who knows me (most of them knowing I'm a motorsport nut) about a given race, or circumstances is that it's a circus and that if I was the age I was now when I first got into F1 in the early 80's, I wouldn't give it a second glance.

Too contrived, too political, too over engineered, too technical and not enough spectacle.

[Paradise City]

I think it's a natural cycle - the decline. The discussion of a new 'social media' strategy is very fine and well - but I wouldn't say there is any real strategy sufficient to stem the popularity of this sport from going in a generally downward direction.

The sport has got action and personality drama. If that doesn't stimulate the mainstream audience; nothing will. Mainstream audiences aren't purist racing fans and going back to the ethos of an earlier era (no gimmicks, passing but tougher passing) won't appease them either. Social media will do a bit but it's not some antidote. Indycar has most of the social bells and whistles and they are still next to flatlining in numbers. F1 is on a global landscape but I still don't see the 'magic ingredient' that will reverse F1's decline.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by davyboy

TV viewing audiences are inexorably declining. People are already turning off in their droves... and the sport is failing to attract new viewers in the form of a younger demographic. We may be firing in all directions here, but there's no question that this thing is in trouble.

To reinforce that point there has been a study done in Australia showing how the sales of TV's has declined. If it has happened here I don't see other western countries being any different.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...13-10gfw3.html

[chunterer]

I think if the regs pretty much guaranteed seasons like 2003, 2010, 2012 every season or every other season (one team will always find an edge for a time even in restrictive situations) that would help.

I think both rave fans and casuals want to see more than one team competing at the front.

In football there's always 2 or 3 over a season, in tennis there's 2 or 3 players, and in America NASCAR has at least that. And the personalities involved are quite contrasting as well. In F1 the drivers are often seen as sulky or arrogant, and without much of genuine interest to say.

How often does F1 give us that competition consistently?

[jmlima]

Originally Posted by davyboy

TV viewing audiences are inexorably declining. People are already turning off in their droves... and the sport is failing to attract new viewers in the form of a younger demographic. We may be firing in all directions here, but there's no question that this thing is in trouble.

Yeah, but that can be said from a lot of things. F1 on TV competes with so many things that its natural to drop in audience.

Going back on memory lane, back in he 80's there were two (2) tv channels. F1 on Sunday's was a massive event and virtually the only watchable thing at that time. In the 90's there were four (4) tv channels and cable was starting, on Sundays there were now options and I remember for the first time, two of us in a separate room watching F1 and the rest of the family watching other stuff in another tv. These days? F1 went to pay channels, which massively reduced its viewers, and there are a gazillion of channels and forms of entertainment. It became fundamentally a show (where, for example, the same company owns two different (supposedly) competing teams...) and as a show its now competing with reality tv, which is, IMO a losing proposition for a show that does not know it wants to drop the pretence of sport and become a fully staged and glamou'red show or keep this mooshy-wooshy in bteween status.

[bella]

i think you've got a really good point there.

invariably f1 has to accept that its viewer share in markets with vast numbers of tv channels (and no contract with a free to air channel) will drop, as will its popularity.

looking at the (genuine) sponsors in the market, are they trying to reach the biggest market possible or a niche market with an unlimited budget to spend on premium and business related products?

in which case, all the "keeping the spectators interested" stuff is a moot point. nobody cares. they're not marketing a sport, they're marking a product and a lifestyle. which is what red bull have been doing with all their sports.

[Moneyseeker]

You also have a promoter that does no promotion, marketing, PR or advertising so hardly surpising that fewer and fewer people are aware of the 'product'.

[bella]

if i was trying to promote f1 i don't know how i'd promote it, to what market and as what kind of a product... anyone got any ideas?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by bella

i think you've got a really good point there.

invariably f1 has to accept that its viewer share in markets with vast numbers of tv channels (and no contract with a free to air channel) will drop, as will its popularity.

looking at the (genuine) sponsors in the market, are they trying to reach the biggest market possible or a niche market with an unlimited budget to spend on premium and business related products?

in which case, all the "keeping the spectators interested" stuff is a moot point. nobody cares. they're not marketing a sport, they're marking a product and a lifestyle. which is what red bull have been doing with all their sports.

It's true that F1 has more competition in regions with a profligacy of TV channels. It's also true that people in advanced economies are watching less TV, preferring to consume other forms of entertainment - web, social media, apps/games etc... However neither of these fully explain the decline in the F1 TV audience as the TV audiences of other global sports such as The Premier League and The Champions League are managing to fend off the competition and continue to increase.

[jmlima]

Originally Posted by davyboy

... However neither of these fully explain the decline in the F1 TV audience as the TV audiences of other global sports such as The Premier League and The Champions League are managing to fend off the competition and continue to increase.

You cannot really compare the 'tribal' aspect of football following to F1 following. Its a completely different ballgame (pun intended) .

[bella]

Originally Posted by davyboy

It's true that F1 has more competition in regions with a profligacy of TV channels. It's also true that people in advanced economies are watching less TV, preferring to consume other forms of entertainment - web, social media, apps/games etc... However neither of these fully explain the decline in the F1 TV audience as the TV audiences of other global sports such as The Premier League and The Champions League are managing to fend off the competition and continue to increase.

no, i agree entirely, it doesn't explain it fully.

but i think it gives you a key indicator, and perhaps the lack of available free to air for those without the option to view pay per view is the first step towards somebody losing interest.

that could be personal projection though - i know the fact i can't just turn my telly on and watch f1 live now means i don't really form an immediate attachment to it. that in turn means i don't tune in to the ones that ARE live, and if i do have access to ppv tv i don't feel the need to use it for continuity purposes.

it's small factors that tip people into abandoning habits and attachment to stuff. missing a race and realising the world didn't end is the first step. realising you actually didn't miss losing 2 hours of your life to the tv coverage to said event when you can read about it afterwards in incredible detail is another...

edit: i also agree with jmlima tho - football is a life choice. i change the f1 team i follow all the time. i cannot change that as a newborn i was brought home from the hospital in a "i'm a red devil" united babygro.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by jmlima

You cannot really compare the 'tribal' aspect of football following to F1 following. Its a completely different ballgame (pun intended) .

Yes, there's a constant replenishment in soccer fans as well as kids can pick up a ball for nothing and do what the stars are doing in perfect safety. The national team pours kerosene upon that interest.

Whereas motorsports is an elite of sorts, cash intensive and dangerous. That creates a gulf and a gulf that will only ever widen in a world of saturation entertainment and quick thrills.

They can do better at 'social media' but there's nothing that can be done at a fundamental level to stem the decline. The time of national heroes has become jaded too - unless an American can come good or something.

Best sober up, suck it up and readjust to the new reality. Albeit my confidence for them to be able to do that, isn't high. Hell, Bernie can't even find an intern to put up a twitter account.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bella

if i was trying to promote f1 i don't know how i'd promote it, to what market and as what kind of a product... anyone got any ideas?

there is only one idea and anyone trying to sell product to the broader world is using it.

F1's needs to take entire races from every season and stick it on youtube and see what people watch, see what they share with their friends and use that data to make an informed choice about which direction f1 should move towards in the future.

other sports embrace their history. F1 hides from theirs.

its not enough to get new viewers to tune into next weeks race, they need to find ways to get people interested in its history. they need to find ways for people to make that history part of their own history.

a dedicated online channel would be ideal but given their need to monetize everything then something like offering Netflix (or similar service) subscribers a rotating selection of classic races every month to watch would be a great first step.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by bella

edit: i also agree with jmlima tho - football is a life choice. i change the f1 team i follow all the time. i cannot change that as a newborn i was brought home from the hospital in a "i'm a red devil" united babygro.

I totally appreciate the tribal nature of football and that's what will ensure it only looses viewers when they die. However in a world where the gaming has become the down time pursuit of choice for young people, soccer is an old skool outdoor sport that's still attractive to that demographic for many of the reasons Paradise gave, chief among them being it's tangibility. It's interesting also to see how Premier League soccer is continually expanding into new territories the world over. It's unsurprising that they do a better job of this than Bernie. However I agree with what others have said... there are deeper fundamental problems with the concept of Formula One and I can't think of a solution to those.

[Moneyseeker]

Agreed on the football comparison, PL clubs have cleverly managed to turn themselves into multi million pound global business, whilst still maintaining grass roots, home fan loyalty, which considering how detached the clubs and players are financially from the fans is a real achievement.

I think the team and individual skill on show aspect resonates well with football fans whereas in F1, the line is blurred between the car and the driver over who is making the real difference and 'performing'.

With my commercial hat on, a few years back I negotiated the Silverstone Scalextric licence agreement, which saw a Silverstone Circuit branded set go on sale. In the set we inserted a voucher that said something along the lines of - you've played with your Scalextric, now come to Silverstone and see the real thing and there was a call to action and discount code for tickets. This was a by product of the main objective of selling the branded set, but it appealed to us as an agency working for Silverstone, to reach the next generation of fans at a young age and get dad, who would race son on the set, to bring him along to the circuit.

Sadly, I've no stats on what take up was and the set was a limited edition so no longer on sale (I believe) but it illustrates a simple way to get F1 in front of young eyes based around a relevant activity.

Part of the reason for dragging this up is that we have God Children who are of an age when I was first really into cars and motorsport and neither they or thier friends exhibit any interest in cars or racing, so I am wondering if there is generally dwindling interest in cars that has the knock on effect to F1.

On the point about how you promote F1, I am sure that any half decent marketing/activation agency would come up with a raft of ideas and plans to promote F1.

Again with my commercial hat on, last year on Regent Street to promote Hackett's store opening, we had Aston Martin Racing doing LIVE pit stops on Regent Street with Stuart Hall driving (slow speed before you ask) with sims in the store for customers to try and beat a time set by Stuart. Footfall to the store and sales of Hackett AMR merchandise increased massively on the day.

None of this is rocket science at all.

The bottom line on all of this is that FOM do not need to work hard for the money, they get paid up front from TV and circuits come rain or shine, come good race or bad. Any extra income from trackside ads or sponsorship is all wheat in the bin cash, not essential income.

If you had a promoter on a max ten year term, reviewed and open tendered after that, they would have to work hard in all areas to plese all parties, teams, circuits, fans, sponsors, etc,etc. This was particularly brough home to me recently when a new rail franchise took over our local line - on only a 7 year term during which they are legally commited to hundreds of millions of pounds of investment on infrastructure, buying new trains and increasing services!