Bell's Banter 2021

[The Fat Clerk]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Its not easy to keep marshals fully committed at least here for track races. How many will be happy to come back when the H situation will be sorted? This is a real concern. And because many historic meetings now use the F1 model, drive through, stop and go, enquiry, real time penalty or after the race penalty, we need experienced ones.

Couldn't agree more Gerard, Marshals having a 'year of' have discovered they do have Wives, Children, pets etc and may not be so keen to come back to 12 hour days, with all the vagaries of the weather.
Then add in the people like myself who are in failing health and it doesn't look good.
I know that the BARC C1 24 hour race @ Silverstone in a fortnight is desperately short, but then again a 6 race meeting between 9 & 5 followed a couple of hours later with a 24 hour race would only appeal to a limited market of Marshals.
I think in the coming years the situation will only get worse, maybe events like Goodwood & the BTTC will be ok with the 15 minutes of fame people drawn in by being on live TV, but other events I'm not so sure about.

The Blue Book says: G12.1. An adequate number of competent Marshals must be on duty throughout any event, allocated to locations and duties appropriate to their individual experience and training.
I wouldn't want to be the MSUK Steward who said that wasn't the case.

[Lancsbreaker]

Even our club (CSCC) who have a good reputation with marshals, and normally get good support, have had to limit a meeting at Donington in the past when we couldn't run the planned Melbourne loop because of a shortage of marshals.


Not really surprised that a 24-hour race struggles, mind you

[bauble]

The organisers have relied on volunteer marshals to enable their meeting to go ahead ever since most were club members, I remember seeing Duncan Hamilton and Tony Rolt marshalling at the Grand Prix. BRDC club members you see?
Today the number of trained marshals required at any circuit has become a major problem, as FC has pointed out the long days away from home can be irksome.

Maybe not for a while But I foresee every circuit having a paid army of marshals on their staff, if not a full time occupation, but a sort of Territorial Army.

Certainly the Grand Prix organisers should be paying, the amount of money swilling around, making drivers multi-millionaires. Without marshals the like of
Hamilton, Vettel, et al would not be so well off.

Probably a health insurance as well FC?

[The Fat Clerk]

Maybe not for a while But I foresee every circuit having a paid army of marshals on their staff, if not a full time occupation, but a sort of Territorial Army.

It's what happens @ all circuits for weekday Test / Trackdays.
I was @ Mallory yesterday and Thursday for Javelin Trackdays, next week it's the Caterham Academy on Monday, a Javelin car trackday on Tuesday & a BRSCC Testday on Friday. I love being 'retired'

[Gerard C]

No marshals no meeting. Simple like that. We should ask any driver to do some marshaling and check the use of the entry fees, voluntary work knows limits. This weekend we have a 6 hour race at Magny with only 19 cars on this particular grid, I dont think it will be a pleasant time for everyone.

[rbs]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

The Blue Book says: G12.1. An adequate number of competent Marshals must be on duty throughout any event, allocated to locations and duties appropriate to their individual experience and training.

MSA are really vague here so that puts the onus on the clerk. Why can't the MSA say the number of marshals required and make their appointed stewards jobs easier. The onus would then get moved onto the organising clubs to ensure they had enough marshals for the circuit being used. Quite often the larger clubs organise several meetings on the same weekend and on neighbouring circuits, but how much do they do to increase the marshals available.
I neer believed in paying marshals until recently, why should they be the only volunteers when time keepers, scrutineers & medics are paid? Maybe the time has come for professional marshals at weekends like circuits do in the week.
As Dave (FC) says I'm glad I am retired and can chose what & when I do it!

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by rbs

I neer believed in paying marshals until recently, why should they be the only volunteers when time keepers, scrutineers & medics are paid? Maybe the time has come for professional marshals at weekends like circuits do in the week.

Exactly. Its time.

[GORDON STREETER]

When I was Motocrossing at a club events you couldn't get a ride unless you did your stint at a flag post at that meeting, otherwise no one (or very few people) would volunteer to stand there all day !

[Paul D]

I'd have no objection in principle to marshals being paid for their efforts.

Buuut...

Where's the money coming from to pay them? That's somewhat rhetorical, as I suspect the answer is it'll be us, the competitors, who have to stump up for it. Then we're getting onto very thin ice if that's the case: club competitors are already leaving the sport in droves, with a significant number siting costs as their primary reason for hanging up their helmets.

Just plucking a figure from the air, let's say this adds anything between £30 & £50 to a race entry if we're to pay the marshals more than a token amount. I think then we run the risk of the cure becoming worse than the disease, as we could simply turn the problem on its head and suddenly find that we have no shortage of marshals willing to turn out and get paid, but not enough competitors to make club meetings viable.

£30 or £50 added to cost of a meeting may not sound like much to many well-heeled competitors entering high-profile historic meetings, but I think for a significant number of 'grass-roots' guys (most on here I imagine) it could turn out to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[Lancsbreaker]

I don't think it would necessarily be that sort of amount, Paul, at least not the upper level - though it depends on the circuit. Thinking back to my last outing at Oulton, there were probably 25 or so posts manned, with say an average of 3 marshals, plus the pit and paddock -so say 100?



What would be a reasonable amount to pay? I know CSCC already gives £10 to every marshal as a contribution towards expenses, but would say £80, or maybe £100 be enough to attract an army of "volunteers"? If so, we are looking at £8K - £10K - given that a typical CSCC meet will have between 300 and 500 competitors it doesn't look quite so scary....although I guess if you are talking 2-day meets the costs do add up.


Interesting topic for debate, though....

[Gerard C]

Not only you can think about extra cost for the entrants, something in the region of 10 additional £ sounds reasonable but you should ask to the club/organiser to include this new line in the budget and find another way to fund it. We need clubs, we need them wealthy but is it necessary to make them rich? In France its almost impossible to look at the budget till a club or organiser goes down…

[Lancsbreaker]

I think its different here - certainly CSCC have an AGM and publish their accounts each year - and yes, they do seem to have a largeish balance, but of course they do have to lay out quite a lot of money upfront when booking circuits. And they have done a fair job in keeping entry fee increases to a reasonable level.

[midgetman]

I received £40 once for being a judge of fact on nose cones at a kart race. I think all marshals at kart track receive "expenses" plus free food etc. There again we don't need the sheer numbers of bodies that a car track needs, so basically have one marshal at every flag point plus a couple of guys running around putting tyre walls straight.

A friend of mine used to be a member of the Orange Army at motor bike races. The weekend was a major part of his social life, and God could he and his mates drink. The size of his hangover on race day made me feel paid, professional marshals operating to high standards is a very good way forward.

In this day and age, is Driver X's mate standing alongside a track not knowing what to do a good thing? Strikes me no marshal at all is preferable to a useless one, as the organisers would come up with a viable Plan B.

But we've had this discussion loads of times before. Normally at this stage all the marshals wade in and tell me what an @r5e I am, then John Smith used to email me privately and say how right I am. God I miss him!

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[Gerard C]

Marshaling for car races requires different skills and training I think and surely when tintops are involved. Fire risks and extraction of the driver when the car is upside down for instance are cases you must take in count. I remember you've been talking about FE here, Max, some training is required to be efficient.
When I was involved with what you call Orange Army, the benchmark was Monaco marshals.

[midgetman]

Exactly Gerard, which is why drivers deserve more than using their mates to stand.on the banking just to keep the numbers up. Marshals are highly trained people these days, and if as an entrant we have to suck up higher fees to pay for their services then so be it.

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[The Fat Clerk]

[QUOTE
But we've had this discussion loads of times before. Normally at this stage all the marshals wade in and tell me what an @r5e I am, then John Smith used to email me privately and say how right I am. God I miss him!

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Me too, a very dear friend,

[GORDON STREETER]

As I said we had to do our stint at flag posts when I was doing motocross, mostly at jumps to wave a yellow if someone had fallen and was unsighted on the other side. I remember yellow flagging because of a bloke who fell off right in front of me and I wondered why he didn't just get up and get going as it was a "slow nothing" fall into mud. However he had broken his back !!! He did recover after a spell in hospital and did come back racing, so marshaling at any event should have proper training and be rewarded for it.

[Gerard C]

We knew a lot of improvements in terms of efficiency and good ambiance doing "some" communication between drivers and marshals. All sort of communication. I had the opportunity to show in the flesh what it gives from inside when you're driving a Caterham and try to overtake a 997 when its raining… Vice versa, few laps in a 997 and anyone can "see" that a Caterham is almost invisible.
Many meetings were spread over at least three days, we found time to have marshals enjoying a race car. What happens usually is that they are asked to stay when the VIP's are enjoying the scenic railway during lunch time…

[bauble]

Meeting a great many of our friends trackside as a photographer, you realise that they are above all enthusiasts, and give their time gladly, should marshaling become a 'profession' many may feel it has lost the spirit of the job.
Being paid means commitment, and takes away freedom of choice as to where and when to work.
There is no easy solution, although I can envisage an army of 'professional' marshals who work at events like the Grand Prix and BTCC, while the enthusiasts cover the club events, possibly with a contribution towards expenses.

I would also impose a fine on any driver who did not wave at the marshals at the end of a race, that is not a lot to ask - is it?

Just a few thoughts.

[Gerard C]

Possibly with a contribution towards expenses Its a minimum dont you think so? Many drivers wave at the marshals at the end of a race, not only the winners, you know that Bob. As you say there's no easy solution but if we dont even try…

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Possibly with a contribution towards expenses Its a minimum dont you think so? Many drivers wave at the marshals at the end of a race, not only the winners, you know that Bob. As you say there's no easy solution but if we dont even try…

Most/many drivers do acknowledge the marshals, Gerard, as they know it is popular. I would fine the ones who don't. Miserable B............s

[Gerard C]

Not all animals are the same in a herd…

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Not all animals are the same in a herd…

But, Gérard, some animals are more equal than others. Or so George Orwell wrote in his book Animal Farm which was his view of communism.

[Gerard C]

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Not all animals are the same in a herd…

Especially re Mike's post regarding Animal Farm, when they have a French inspired name like Napoleon.