[BTCC] BTCC 2021

[antnee]

Hitting the clutch would give a similar result to the brake pedal hitting the floor or the throttle jamming open....

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

I doubt it and don't care what people think of that. My opinion with his track record. First it went from jammed throttle, to failed brakes to pressing the clutch instead. Just a book of excuses.

At the risk of defending him again, hitting the clutch, the brake pedal going to the floor and the throttle sticking open would all feel very, very similar.

He’s not the first to do it and he won’t be the last.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

At the risk of defending him again, hitting the clutch, the brake pedal going to the floor and the throttle sticking open would all feel very, very similar.

He’s not the first to do it and he won’t be the last.

And even more confusing if you are reacting to a car unexpectedly braking in front of you and you are trying to stop.

From piecing together multiple sources - the sequence of events seems to be:

Race starts - cars accelerate to the first corner.
Neate expects all cars to be full throttle through the corner, and then unexpectedly a car in front of him illuminates the brake lights.
Neate presses his left foot down - but at this stage in the start sequence he hasn't moved his foot over to the brake pedal yet.
Neate finds his car does not slow as expected, and a crash ensues.

In the immediate moments after the crash, having thought that he braked, his assumption is that there must have been a mechanical failure. It is this assumption he stands by initially, and explains this to the other drivers involved and the stewards.

Once the data is analysed, the stewards can see that there was no mechanical failure, and the car reacted as would be expected from the inputs from the driver. This confirms that the incident was caused by the driver - and so a penalty was issued.

Further analysis and reflection indicates that Neate pressed the clutch, not the brake.

I am willing to accept at this stage that the incident was driver error - and one that other drivers can appreciate as being something that could be expected. Neate's biggest criticism (IMO) is in openly declaring a mechanical failure before analysing all of the evidence.

I note that Kimi Raikkonen didn't receive the same level of criticism for driving into the back of Giovinazzi recently.

[Alfisti]

Kimi told the team he was #$%^ing around with something on the steering wheel and therefore failed to realise how quickly he had closed on his teammate: i.e. he didn't try and apportion blame other than on himself.

Andy Neate quickly said he'd had a car failure, rather than take time to reflect. I'm feeling pretty mellow towards him at the moment. He's not the best driver and I would reckon he knows and accepts that. I suspect he either simply couldn't react to events occurring around him in time or wasn't able to realise where his foot was and do something about it. And in the aftermath was likely shaken, disoriented, confused, upset, angry and probably several other things too.

Here's hoping for a better outing next time round. We can't do anything about R2 now, it happened, time to move on.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Kimi told the team he was #$%^ing around with something on the steering wheel and therefore failed to realise how quickly he had closed on his teammate: i.e. he didn't try and apportion blame other than on himself.

I think that relates to the point I was trying to make.

Neate made an error in his driving - many claim that a top level driver shouldn't make mistakes and clamour for him to be removed from the series.
Kimi made an error in his driving - but nobody claims that a top level driver shouldn't make mistake like that.

Neate made comments that suggested a mechanical failure (I don't think he actually blamed anyone for it - that was just inferred) - probably should have taken time to reflect on the incident before making comment.
Kimi made comments that admitted his mistake - no real issue.


I guess in summary - what I am trying to work out is whether people are more critical of the mistake in driving, or the post-incident comments?

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

what I am trying to work out is whether people are more critical of the mistake in driving, or the post-incident comments?

I think this is also because Kimi is hugely popular and has proven himself to be a world class driver over several years.
Neate, on the other hand, appears to be resented by many fans simply for being there, and then various incidents add to the weight of that.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Personally I don't get why people are being so hard on him for saying he had a mechanical failure. As far as he was aware at the time he had braked and nothing happened. Now if someone asked me as soon as I climbed out of the car (as it appeared the other two did) what happened I would have replied with mechanical failure as well. It's not as though Neate came out with it later after saying something different to start with.

[porsche962fan]

anyone remeber Mike Jordan saying something like bigger wallet than talent regarding Neate ?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

anyone remeber Mike Jordan saying something like bigger wallet than talent regarding Neate ?

Last I recall, it was left behind in 2013:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and we all remember Mike Jordan's "bigger wallet than talent"

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

Personally I don't get why people are being so hard on him for saying he had a mechanical failure. As far as he was aware at the time he had braked and nothing happened. Now if someone asked me as soon as I climbed out of the car (as it appeared the other two did) what happened I would have replied with mechanical failure as well. It's not as though Neate came out with it later after saying something different to start with.

Exactly. I'm sure there's been plenty of other drivers in motorsport who have initially felt like they had a mechanical failure before studying the data. At least Neate has now realised he got confused between the pedals

[Northern Monkey]

I’m not looking to defend Neate at all but what he was reported to have said to Edwards and Geddie was ‘something’ broke but he didn’t know what.

The whole brakes failed looks more like it came from his Mrs posting on Facebook and than having to backtrack.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The whole brakes failed looks more like it came from his Mrs posting on Facebook and than having to backtrack.

The stewards' decision included "as there is no evidence of mechanical failure with the car from the data that was obtained after the race" in their judgement. That's very specific wording and not something you would normally expect to see. That says to me that the claims of a fault with the car wasn't just something that Mrs N posted on Facebook but something that was used in justification against a penalty.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by redshoes

The stewards' decision included "as there is no evidence of mechanical failure with the car from the data that was obtained after the race" in their judgement. That's very specific wording and not something you would normally expect to see. That says to me that the claims of a fault with the car wasn't just something that Mrs N posted on Facebook but something that was used in justification against a penalty.

Because, at that time he firmly belived it . As discussed on here pushing the clutch down (idiot) which felt the same as brake / throttle failure.

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by redshoes

The stewards' decision included "as there is no evidence of mechanical failure with the car from the data that was obtained after the race" in their judgement. That's very specific wording and not something you would normally expect to see. That says to me that the claims of a fault with the car wasn't just something that Mrs N posted on Facebook but something that was used in justification against a penalty.

It was Ian Watson, the Clerk of the Course that fined Neate and described his driving as "...departing from the standard of reasonably competent driver,..."

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by mark_l

It was Ian Watson, the Clerk of the Course that fined Neate and described his driving as "...departing from the standard of reasonably competent driver,..."

That's fairly standard wording when a driver has had penalty points for causing an avoidable accident. I've seen it quite a few times. I think the last time prior to this was GT cup a couple of weeks ago but I expect there are others every week.

[bella]

"significantly below that of a licensed competitor" was at gt cup and to be fair, that was because the driver involved had tried to stuff another car into the pitwall at the chequered flag and then pushed him off into the gravel at druids on the cool down lap. disqualified and chucked out of the meeting plus six penalty points.

so that was pretty inappropriate behaviour.

[Sodemo]

If it were me that had caused hundreds of thousands of pounds of damage to my car and others I would be mortified and probably grovelling at their feet with apologies and offers to help pay the bills, but the way some of these racing drivers just get out of a wreck, shrug and walk back to pits is a bit beyond me.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Because, at that time he firmly belived it . As discussed on here pushing the clutch down (idiot) which felt the same as brake / throttle failure.

As indeed was my point. I was replying to the suggestion that the car failure idea was only something posted to social media by his wife.

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

That's fairly standard wording when a driver has had penalty points for causing an avoidable accident.

The 'departing from standards..' bit is fairly standard wording, the 'no evidence of mechanical failure...' bit less so

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

If it were me that had caused hundreds of thousands of pounds of damage to my car and others I would be mortified and probably grovelling at their feet with apologies and offers to help pay the bills, but the way some of these racing drivers just get out of a wreck, shrug and walk back to pits is a bit beyond me.

That's when you have more money than sense, or talent.

[Sodemo]

Is there any way ITV could incorporate team radios into the broadcast? Its something which is now missing from the coverage but during the 90s was available to play in. Granted it was highlights and all done in post production, but if F1 can do live-ish radio, can't other series?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Is there any way ITV could incorporate team radios into the broadcast? Its something which is now missing from the coverage but during the 90s was available to play in. Granted it was highlights and all done in post production, but if F1 can do live-ish radio, can't other series?

That would, I would think, depend on the relationship between the broadcasters and TOCA, as well as whether TOCA have the authority to monitor radio communications made by the individual teams.

You need to bear in mind that the broadcasting of F1 is owned and controlled by FOM, and the FIA's rules dictate that all communications by the teams are constantly monitored by the race director's team of officials, and I don't know whether any other series has that kind of relationship, apart from, perhaps, the Le Mans 24 Hours.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Is there any way ITV could incorporate team radios into the broadcast? Its something which is now missing from the coverage but during the 90s was available to play in. Granted it was highlights and all done in post production, but if F1 can do live-ish radio, can't other series?

I think there are legal reasons to do with radio transmissions that means scanners that are common in USA racing are not legal in UK. Although no doubt the teams listen to each other!

[ScottS]

Along the lines of team radios being broadcasted, I posted this comment of Paul O'Neill's recent video...

Why also doesn't ITV team up with the teams or TOCA to do a similar thing to F1 and provide a "best of onboard" from the 3 races? There are soooo many overtakes, close races and incidents that many fans I'm sure would love to see from an onboard perspective. It's sad that sooo much amazing footage is with the teams or TOCA and never seen or shown the light of day. I'd love to be onboard with Jake Hill for a few laps of race 3 while he drove in anger even if the telemetry did have to be blurred out to not give away his driving secrets.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Is there any way ITV could incorporate team radios into the broadcast? Its something which is now missing from the coverage but during the 90s was available to play in. Granted it was highlights and all done in post production, but if F1 can do live-ish radio, can't other series?

BTCC drivers don't use the radio as much as F1 drivers: With such short races and no pit stops there's really no need.

As someone who has often listened to the radio communications at BTCC races, believe me, it's pretty dull.

Generally the driver will do a radio check on their way to the grid, and if there's no safety car or dramatic change in weather conditions, that may be the last communication until the end of the race.

[S griffin]

I always used to enjoy the team’s coded messages for picking up rubber on the cooldown lap in the 90s. ‘Gimping is a popular pastime’ is my favourite