Bell's Banter 2021

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

As well as being better for most things which can be dangerous if you do not do the right thing in time .

Run away before getting married spring to my mind… Just a thought… Ya no…

[E.B]

Happy Birthday to Alan.

[S griffin]

Have a great day Alan and many happy returns. Enjoy!

[rbs]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

We have the Airbus example of their system that contributed to the crash at the Paris Air Show many years ago, and of course recently the Boeing Max 737 crashes..

Do not think it crashed at Paris air show, thought it was at Mulhouse. But an A320 crashed at an airshow.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by rbs

Do not think it crashed at Paris air show, thought it was at Mulhouse. But an A320 crashed at an airshow.

Yes, of course, thank you. This emphasises that I need to stop relying on my memory as it has become a little impaired, along with my mental dictionary. It gets awfully frustrating when one part of the brain tells you that you know a word, but the part responsible for "producing" it is unable to oblige.

But back to that crash; the pilot/s still, I believe, strongly disagree with the official reports that the crash was due solely to human error, and that the "fail safe" computer system "thought" the plane was landing, and therefore wouldn't allow the pilots to apply take-off power.

However, I also believe that Airbus did make adjustments to their computer controlled fly-by-wire throttle control as a result of this crash.

[Gerard C]

Back to the HF highlighted by Andy. Can a "bad person" be a good pilot? I explain, it has been found that a copilot had in his file suicidal thoughts, reported at least two times. Is it normal not to have this guy grounded? At least for a while. Each pilot has his own file and when you read that some were late or missed a "qualification machine" or failed to an exam then its no surprise to have them involved in HF.

I've been asked to make some enquiries after car crashes. Three angles were considered, the road conditions, the car itself and the maintenance and the driver. Its amazing to see how much some circumstances like a divorce can influence the driver abilities.

[andy97]

I went through a divorce when doing my degree at naval college. I couldn’t cope and had too much time to think. I told my boss I wanted to leave the course and go back to sea. He was very kind and understanding and tried to dissuade me; eventually he had to be blunt, “Andy, no Captain will trust you on the bridge of his warship”! My lowest ebb in life. It was a struggle but passed my degree with flying colours and went to sea at the right time.
Nevertheless, humans make inexplicable mistakes, even when not seemingly adversely affected by other factors. One of the accidents my wife investigated involved the sad death of a zoo keeper mauled by a Tiger. Several “experts” said that no experienced zoo keeper would go in to an enclosure with a Tiger, but she did, for no apparent logical reason. She had been trained, had many years experience and knew the procedures.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by andy97

Nevertheless, humans make inexplicable mistakes, even when not seemingly adversely affected by other factors. One of the accidents my wife investigated involved the sad death of a zoo keeper mauled by a Tiger. Several “experts” said that no experienced zoo keeper would go in to an enclosure with a Tiger, but she did, for no apparent logical reason. She had been trained, had many years experience and knew the procedures.

What I called once "le complexe de Superman", Wonderwoman in the case you mention. Superiority complex in fact. To avoid this, if possible, there's a good thing called "check list" in each type of plane. But…

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

What I called once "le complexe de Superman", Wonderwoman in the case you mention. Superiority complex in fact. To avoid this, if possible, there's a good thing called "check list" in each type of plane. But…

Agreed, and “it won’t happen to me”. Check lists on ships, too.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by andy97

Agreed, and “it won’t happen to me”. Check lists on ships, too.

They, likewise, have checklists in hospital operating theatres, but too often, regretfully, some very senior surgeons fail to appreciate the need for them, believing that they know better. Sadly too often they don't and the consequences are usually pretty dire if not fatal. This is one of the reasons why, prior to an operation, that a member of the surgical team will use a marker to inscribe an arrow pointing to the place where the incision or the place that that requires attention is.

Yet some surgeons have been known to even miss those markers, let alone following a checklist. And why a member of the theatre team is responsible for counting all the implements and swabs just before the surgeon closes up the wound because they have been known to leave things inside when they shouldn't have done so.

[Gerard C]

You mean people having had surgery on the "wrong" arm or leg, i-e left instead of right and vice versa. Sounds crazy and ridiculous may be funny till you're not directly involved! Counting the spanners prior to closing the body is a good precaution though…

[geoffrobinson]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I believe that I am right in saying that both Airbus and Boeing have installed what they believed were fail safe systems in their aircraft, both of which failed to stop fatal crashes.

We have the Airbus example of their system that contributed to the crash at the Paris Air Show many years ago, and of course recently the Boeing Max 737 crashes. The basic problem is that in all cases the pilots hadn't been sufficiently trained in the new systems and automatically reverted to the attempted to fly the machines in the way that the were initially trained on older style aircraft.

So, I would say that you need to add to fail safe systems by insisting on more adequate training. For example, in the UK and elsewhere, student pilots are trained in the fairly early stages of learning to fly how to bring and aircraft out of a spiral dive. The problem is that in 99.9 cases out of 100, a spiral dive will occur at probably less than 1000 feet above ground on either take off or landing. This usually means that the pilot doesn't have sufficient ground clearance to actually bring the aircraft out of the spin before it crashes, and unfortunately, fatally.

The answer is that pilots should be taught, and the learning should be refreshed at reasonable frequency, to be able to stabilise or stop the dive of the aircraft at the incipient stage of the spiral dive because that is sufficient. Interestingly, I believe that they take this attitude in the States, and a student pilot is not required to demonstrate his ability to recover an aircraft from a dive during their test to obtain their licence.

Mike, just for info..

A spiral dive and a spin are not the same and require different control inputs to recover.
When I trained back in the 80's we were indeed taught to recognise and deal with both incipient and full blown spiral dives and spins

[Gerard C]

I wonder if the Captain of the container carrier having lost control of his vessel right in the middle of canal de Suez really knows the difference between spinning and sailing sideways… May be he was tempting a 180 and did not found the hand brake?

[GORDON STREETER]

Several years ago I used to have a trip in a 2 seater aircraft with a woman that was a customer of mine. I assumed that because she had a pilots licence she must have passed a test, and of course she had. However I mentioned this to a mate who also had a plane and had been flying for years who said "be very careful of who you fly with in small planes, as passing a test is just passing a test" He then went on to say "a lot people pass a driving test and drive on the road but some are a danger to themselves and others and it's the same with a PPL" This made me think as I knew several people that I wouldn't get in a car with !
This is in no way being derogatory regarding male vs female driving/flying as I know some very good (and bad) ones of both sexes.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

This is in no way being derogatory regarding male vs female driving/flying as I know some very good (and bad) ones of both sexes.

Of course… sure… of course… indeed… obviously…

[Mike Harte]

They say in the flying world that there is no such thing as an old, bold pilot.

[Gerard C]

My favorite instructor used to say "its easier to make a good pilot than an old pilot". It works with cars too it seems.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Of course… sure… of course… indeed… obviously…

I actually mean that, two female drivers in our family are brilliant and my sister who is over 80 years of age would put a lot of male drivers to shame regarding reversing over a long distance with very narrow gaps

[Gerard C]

I know female drivers can be safe and fast and generally less hard on the car. My Dad left us way before I could drive so Mum taught me how to drive properly. She used to go to Montlhéry to be instructed, a very fast Mum I had!
Bad luck for me, she did not like the motorbikes and all the dangers going along. After a crash at Montlhéry during a race right in front of her eyes, I had to explain myself about my passion when we went back home! Hence the driving school few weeks later…

[Mike Harte]

Returning briefly to the subject of airports, one of the more unusual ones was the old airport which used to be situated right in the middle of the town of Eilat back in the 60s. It only had a shortish runway, and I only saw DC3s there. The flight path from the southern end into the airport went right over the beach between two hotels, one of which I was staying in, and sometimes the incoming aircraft's wing would actually brush the branches of the trees planted at the front of the hotel.

As far as I can recall, the only flights from there back then were to the main airport at Tel Aviv, and most of the passengers especially in the morning and late afternoon were commuters going up and back to and from Tel Aviv. The seating arrangements on the craft were very similar to some of the UK's train carriages, with groups of 4 seats with a table between the two pairs towards the front of the aircraft, and some rows behind them with some facing the rear. And like on commuter trains, many of the passengers would start queueing up at the rear exit, the only one they used, before the plane had even landed.

[Gerard C]

Mike, did you ever put your wings or wheels at Dinard airport? This is where I learned to fly at Rousseau Aviation flight school. They had a workshop to refurbish the old planes, I was fascinated by the work done there. To spare some money, we had a Cessna 152 in full IFR trim and it was tricky at night to stay steady on the ILS, because the little thing can be rather instable in long or, worse, short final with the curtains hiding the front and side view. Impressive to see the needles frantically dancing for a youngster.

[Mike Harte]

Ah, Gerry, all the joys of instrument flying as a student pilot especially at night. And no, have only flown into Le Touquet for a leisurely lunch, but we are talking about 40 years ago. And I have difficulty remembering what I had yesterday let alone back then.

Although I have been to St Malo across the estuary a few times when alighting or embarking on the ferry. As I have nightmares about ever being late for any form of public transport, I always made sure we arrived in plenty of time to join the queue, and so my family and I have always enjoyed a many hours looking around the town, plus enjoyed the culinary delights on offer.

We used to stay in a small seaside village/town in Brittany, the name of which currently escapes me, and someone gave me directions for a quick route back the the port. Half way through the route, we came to a town where they had closed the road for a local festival, and signposted the diversion. Unfortunately, that was the only sign that they bothered to put up, and so we got thoroughly lost on the back roads, but eventually made our way to St Malo.

The next year, we tried the route on our way to the place where we were staying, and when we got to that town that was closed, I stopped at the Town Hall and checked on the notice board to see if there was going to be a festival the weekend that we were due to travel back, and lots of other dates were were mentioned, but not the one that was important to me. And yes, you've guessed it, the road was closed again on our way back. And the same happened the next year.

We used to really enjoy our breaks in the area, but were mystified by some of the locals. For instance, apparently to neighbouring mayors had a falling out over something fairly trivial. As a result, they both removed all the road signs directing traffic to one another's towns making it extremely difficult to find one's way around that particular area especially if you didn't have a detailed map with you at the time.

[Gerard C]

Mike, I do recognize all the bad habits they have with road signs over there. It seems they love to send strangers and foreigners right in the middle of nowhere and say goodbye! The small towns you refer to could be Saint-Cast or Saint-Jacut de la mer or any other starting with "Saint"! Did you notice that each intersection has its crucifix?

I used to own a house located at Sables d'Or les Pins, between Cap Fréhel and Erquy. In the '60s, coming from Paris, my Dad always checked the ferry schedule before choosing between the short or long route. This was before the construction of barrage de la Rance, and its strange usine marée-motrice supplying electricity to the neighborhood. Fourty years later or so, the "thingy" (bidule in de Gaulle words) became useful and modern!

[midgetman]

Back to work tomorrow. It's been a long three months, hope I remember my castor change from my carburettor tweak!

There does seem to be a difference in approach between different circuits and clubs to "Covid 19" rules, sometimes it's hard to remember where we are. But yeah, I'm looking forward to it. We'll endure with our true British phlegm, shake ourselves down and carry on. It's gonna be mega.

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[The Fat Clerk]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Back to work tomorrow. It's been a long three months, hope I remember my castor change from my carburettor tweak!
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Me too, bikes tomorrow, Thursday & Friday.

At the moment it's windy and showery, some things don't ever change.