Bell's Banter 2021

[Gerard C]

As to the Super, it is said that Alfa had been using different gauges of steel to make the body, thin where not important, thick where necessary. Truth or urban legend?

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

There is a very nice Alfa Giulia Giardinetta for sale on classicdriver.com - now that is a bit of a rarity!

If my memory serves well, they did not make more than five of those strictly identical. Didnt they modify a saloon or ask to an officina carrozzeria around to make the job?

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

If my memory serves well, they did not make more than five of those strictly identical. Didnt they modify a saloon or ask to an officina carrozzeria around to make the job?

From what I know, 11 cars were converted by Colli, but some had blanked-out rear side windows. At least one was used as an Autodelta service car.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

As to the Super, it is said that Alfa had been using different gauges of steel to make the body, thin where not important, thick where necessary. Truth or urban legend?

Perhaps another legend , but I did read up that , when Russia bought the 124 model to make the Lada , they paid with steel supplies because there was no exchange rate for the Rouble at the time .
And the steel they supplied to Fiat / Alfa was from reclaimed war time scrap . A lot of it from the Russian fleet which had hundreds of thousands of tons sank in the war against the Japanese .
Perhaps just a story , but the problems with the cars rusting did seem to happen shortly after the Russians started supplying the steel .

[Gerard C]

Tel, you mean my beloved GTV's (think I had seven of those starting with a Junior) being rusty is the result of a conspiracy fomented by the Japanese teleguiding the Russian to kill la carrozzeria Bertone… Mama mia me ché merda di testa di noda!!
Hope Grant is not reading this, he owns a Toyopet…

[S griffin]

It’s not the wildest conspiracy I’ve heard, so maybe that is why

[Gerard C]

Its always a "pleasure" to read from my colleagues that the TI Super had door skins, bonnet and trunk lid in aluminium, together with forged aluminium Cromodora wheels… C'est beau la culture chez les jeunes crétins!

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

Perhaps another legend , but I did read up that , when Russia bought the 124 model to make the Lada , they paid with steel supplies because there was no exchange rate for the Rouble at the time .
And the steel they supplied to Fiat / Alfa was from reclaimed war time scrap . A lot of it from the Russian fleet which had hundreds of thousands of tons sank in the war against the Japanese .
Perhaps just a story , but the problems with the cars rusting did seem to happen shortly after the Russians started supplying the steel .

There is some truth in that, I believe. Whether the steel actually came from wartime steel I'm not quite so sure.

I owned two Fiat 124's & they were very good, especially the 124S. There was one for sale at Retromobile last year (did you see it, Gerard?) which was very tempting.

Of course in the 70's everything rusted You could virtually stand & watch it happening on my friends' Honda Civic.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

Of course in the 70's everything rusted You could virtually stand & watch it happening on my friends' Honda Civic.

In the 70s there was a Datsun main agent near me, I know that they had to put new door sills on some of the brand new models before they could be sold

[Lancsbreaker]

Whilst its a common tale, I think the "russian steel" gag is something of a myth. The Suds of course did suffer badly from rot (I know, I bought a new one in 79 ) but it was more to do with bad protection and build processes.



The Giulia mentioned above was bid just over 40K Euro last time I checked, but I see it was "Unsold" - so may well appear again.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

There is some truth in that, I believe. Whether the steel actually came from wartime steel I'm not quite so sure.

I owned two Fiat 124's & they were very good, especially the 124S. There was one for sale at Retromobile last year (did you see it, Gerard?) which was very tempting.

Of course in the 70's everything rusted You could virtually stand & watch it happening on my friends' Honda Civic.

Try finding a non rusty MX5 even now, even the Mk3.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by andy97

Try finding a non rusty MX5 even now, even the Mk3.

I have an old jap import MX5 that I haven't driven for a couple of years in my workshop. I'll stick it on the 4 wheel ramp (not the wheel free one ) and take a look as I was thinking of selling it. A brilliant car to drive that has never given a spot of trouble and 100% reliable

[Gerard C]

I remember a Mitsu Colt (the one with two final ratios) which went in two parts, the rust started around the front struts. In fact Jap's dont worry about rust once the car is sold, its you got the car we have the money, manage yourself! Agreed Andy, the MX's do rust and the Mk2 also called NB is the worse of the series. You have some specialists around able to change the chassis rails without removing the engine.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I have an old jap import MX5 that I haven't driven for a couple of years in my workshop. I'll stick it on the 4 wheel ramp (not the wheel free one ) and take a look as I was thinking of selling it. A brilliant car to drive that has never given a spot of trouble and 100% reliable

Japanese imports are meant to be less bad, I think, as I don’t think they need to use salt on the roads in winter in Japan, but they just don’t seem to believe in rust protection so after a couple of years driving them in the U.K, standby!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by andy97

Try finding a non rusty MX5 even now, even the Mk3.

Anybody who thinks Mercedes Benzes are solid quality should talk to a Sprinter owner. They're like a 70s BL car.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Anybody who thinks Mercedes Benzes are solid quality should talk to a Sprinter owner. They're like a 70s BL car.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

They are certainly not the quality they were. A friend bought a new S-Class some years ago to use in his chauffeur drive business, but it was endless trouble. The final glory was the rear suspension collapsing as they were en route to a funeral!

He swapped it for a Bentley in the end, which was altogether better.

[Gerard C]

Collapsing before going to a funeral is quite normal…
Not only Sprinters but the Vitos front end suspension and steering components are pure pain in the neck too.
What amazes me is the poor quality of the paint job on modern cars. Orange skin everywhere, not a classic could show this even now.

[Mike Harte]

Had 3 Toyota Crowns, all different models, over a a fifteen year period and until the last days when i had the final one, rust was never a problem. With the last one, the only corrosion happened around the top of the windscreen above the driver's seat.

The real concern was the way that they chained the cars down on the transport ships bringing them to Europe which could seriously affect the suspension geometry and tracking, causing very bad uneven front tyre wear.

[S griffin]

Never heard of a Toyota Crown before, must have been worth it if you owned 3 different ones over 15 years. Is rust still a problem on cars? With cars of old it would be, but current cars seem a lot shinier and less likely to rust

Shame about the chaining affecting the suspension and tyre wear, guess some things weren't meant to be

[Peter Mallett]

Try this. https://images.app.goo.gl/NuNLTqZp9wQiNy9r6

Whenever I transport my racecar I always check the tracking before racing. The tie downs can affect the steering.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Anybody who thinks Mercedes Benzes are solid quality should talk to a Sprinter owner. They're like a 70s BL car.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

I had a few early 2000 S class Mercs on my books that were terrible for rust after 5/6 years !

[S griffin]

To be fair Merc were still a bit behind with their technology then

[delta]

Good to get back racing and testing again.Wednesday at Donington I did a few laps in my mates FF2000. A car he has owned from new way back in 1982. No one else has ever driven this car so that was fun. Car was good as well. Back to work Friday and Saturday. Easter Sunday test at Donington with my apprentice "Richard Bradley"as JR calls him.The little FJ Brabham was flying and Richard had an Amy of fans watching him slide the car around. They all come round after and I love telling them that this was the Roy James car that he bought with the Great Train Robbery Money.Then I tell them he had stuck the car on pole at Goodwood but the rozzers came down to nick him.He scarpered and was later caught in London. Its not that actual BT2 car but a great story.
Then back to work swop over and down to Goodwood with HRTR5 to run his Lovely Elva Mk5 in the sprint. The lad did well. P7 in class and car looked great coming through Woodcote and the Chicane.
Here is a picture next to a MK 4.

[delta]

Here is the Brabham.

[GORDON STREETER]

Iain how come that you have posted the pictures that way round ? And Roy James mate Gordon Goody lived just up the road to us in Spain for years until he died.
When are you testing at Brands ?