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Old 8 Oct 2024, 20:54 (Ref:4230020)   #3526
porsche962fan
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridporsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
^ Hill himself at TTT
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 04:59 (Ref:4230062)   #3527
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Originally Posted by porsche962fan View Post
Jake Hill speculates that Hyundai engine has some secret qualy setup because it's always the fastest in speed traps
Not quite what he said.

He said "it's like they have another engine mode or something they can go to for qualifying".

It seemed to me that it was just the perception he gets from the outside. I think the reality is that the Hyundai just has a better aero profile at high speed. It didn't come across as a suggestion of anything untoward.

I also think that it's a bit of a strange item to bring up about your rival (their qualifying speed) when you look at the performance Turkington had in the same car as he did for qualifying through the season.
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 05:25 (Ref:4230064)   #3528
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billy bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbilly bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Not quite what he said.

He said "it's like they have another engine mode or something they can go to for qualifying".

It seemed to me that it was just the perception he gets from the outside. I think the reality is that the Hyundai just has a better aero profile at high speed. It didn't come across as a suggestion of anything untoward.

I also think that it's a bit of a strange item to bring up about your rival (their qualifying speed) when you look at the performance Turkington had in the same car as he did for qualifying through the season.
Don’t TOCA monitor the engine performance of every car? If a motor was outside of its BOP then surely they would see it. Or are we back to “it’s been turned up” again despite there being no proof of it ever happening
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 05:41 (Ref:4230068)   #3529
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Originally Posted by billy bleach View Post
Don’t TOCA monitor the engine performance of every car? If a motor was outside of its BOP then surely they would see it. Or are we back to “it’s been turned up” again despite there being no proof of it ever happening
Exactly that - there is nothing to see here.

It might be true that they have a different map for qualifying. But it will still be fully within the permitted parameters.
It might also be that the car is just better on aero.

Either way, there will be nothing 'secret' about it or anything devious going on.
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 08:08 (Ref:4230078)   #3530
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Exactly that - there is nothing to see here.

It might be true that they have a different map for qualifying. But it will still be fully within the permitted parameters.
It might also be that the car is just better on aero.

Either way, there will be nothing 'secret' about it or anything devious going on.

It was a silly, throwaway comment that he really shouldn't have made. I say that because when you look at the simplified explanations of the rules from the BTCC website - not even in the detailed technical regulations - then you see the following:

Quote:
Electronics:

  • The entire vehicle strategy system has been packaged into one unit from 2022. This means that the battery management, motor control strategies, cooling and all of the control surrounding the internal combustion engine is managed by the Cosworth Antares 8 ECU (Electronics Control Unit)
  • Common power management box and switch panels
  • Common Cosworth wiring loom design
  • Judicial camera system to be run by all cars
I would imagine that, like the engines themselves, all the electronics are sealed and monitored by the BTCC scrutineers, and that any special settings would also be available to all the teams.
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 08:53 (Ref:4230083)   #3531
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I would imagine that, like the engines themselves, all the electronics are sealed and monitored by the BTCC scrutineers, and that any special settings would also be available to all the teams.
You are right - but there is still a little bit of freedom to amend the maps by the teams. These maps are also specific to each engine, although the common ECU is used to provide this.

Note the comments from Christian Dick in 2023 when they moved to their own power unit:
“It’s little bits of detail. If we want to take a risk in terms of how close we run to the actual boost limit or temperatures and suchlike, that’s up to us – we’re not told by our engine company. We’ll [now] be advised by our engine company, but we can override that if we want to.”

And it could simply be this 'freedom' that Excelr8 are using in qualifying. They might be pushing the boundaries in terms of boost and temperatures, and having to dial back for their race setting?
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 10:11 (Ref:4230090)   #3532
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Or it could just be that car and driver are quick over a single lap. Turkington was constantly quick in qualifying but I don't see anyone suggesting that he was using a super secret extra boost setting
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 11:14 (Ref:4230097)   #3533
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Originally Posted by redshoes View Post
Or it could just be that car and driver are quick over a single lap. Turkington was constantly quick in qualifying but I don't see anyone suggesting that he was using a super secret extra boost setting
Maybe - but Hill was specifically referring to the speed traps rather than the whole lap.

Which made me wonder - is he right to suggest the Hyundai was top of the speed trap times?

Looking at the evidence, there seems to be little there. It may be a bit of recency bias looking at the last two weekends, but it also is something that has little reason to worry about.

So what if a car is bit quicker at top speed in qualifying only, if you are still getting a better overall lap time?
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 11:22 (Ref:4230098)   #3534
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touring fan01 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtouring fan01 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtouring fan01 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
So what if a car is bit quicker at top speed in qualifying only, if you are still getting a better overall lap time?
exactly

remember the subarus were always bottom of the speed trap and usually at the top of the lap times

the lap time is only thing that matters
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 12:53 (Ref:4230113)   #3535
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
exactly

remember the subarus were always bottom of the speed trap and usually at the top of the lap times

the lap time is only thing that matters
Maybe in qualy, but in a race it's very different. The scoobies were only any good when they led from the front or on tight and twisty tracks. Once in traffic they struggled when cars out dragged them down the straights.
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 15:12 (Ref:4230135)   #3536
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Originally Posted by auroan View Post
Maybe in qualy, but in a race it's very different. The scoobies were only any good when they led from the front or on tight and twisty tracks. Once in traffic they struggled when cars out dragged them down the straights.
we are talking about qualifying speeds
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Old 9 Oct 2024, 17:24 (Ref:4230150)   #3537
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
exactly

remember the subarus were always bottom of the speed trap and usually at the top of the lap times

the lap time is only thing that matters
And the Protons were always fastest through the speed traps but never got a pole.
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Old 10 Oct 2024, 13:27 (Ref:4230246)   #3538
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And the Protons were always fastest through the speed traps but never got a pole.
Which ones? The works ones that ran in the 00s or the Welch one which ran in the 10s? Just curious
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Old 10 Oct 2024, 14:03 (Ref:4230252)   #3539
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
we are talking about qualifying speeds
And ? I made a point that quali lap time isn't the be all and end all of a car's success. The levorg was rubbish in traffic.

So top speed can/is important past quali.
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