LMS Final: Estoril

[JAG]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Because the great Audi and Peugeot are there. I doubt anybody cares about *insert generic Lola team here* beating *insert generic Lola team here* in the regular ALMS rounds. Next year if Muscle Milk goes to Grand Am, NOBODY will care about the LMP battles in either series outside of the WEC. Unless people actually care about the P2 battle and Dyson vs Autocon.

Stronger competition raises everyones level and makes success all the more sweeter. Next years LMS will be a better product because the P2 battle should be deep and of high quality, the WEC P1 field will be more interesting if you have more top petrol teams pushing each other and closing the gap on the diesels (with a little help from the rule makers).

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by JAG

Stronger competition raises everyones level and makes success all the more sweeter. Next years LMS will be a better product because the P2 battle should be deep and of high quality, the WEC P1 field will be more interesting if you have more top petrol teams pushing each other and closing the gap on the diesels (with a little help from the rules makers).

Spot on, P2 battles have been excellent lately. Any true racing rans will enjoy them immensely next year and the LMPC (ex-FLM) should take a step forward too, like in the US.

[arakis]

can anyone give a rundown on the gt race, I had to go out for the last 4h, but I think I saw the jmw below 3rd with 5min to go, what happened?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Because the great Audi and Peugeot are there. I doubt anybody cares about *insert generic Lola team here* beating *insert generic Lola team here* in the regular ALMS rounds. Next year if Muscle Milk goes to Grand Am, NOBODY will care about the LMP battles in either series outside of the WEC. Unless people actually care about the P2 battle and Dyson vs Autocon.

Sorry to spoil your fun then, I'm in minority and actually prefer those generic Lola-classes and petrol fights if my only other choice is Audi vs Peugeot... diesels and their arrogant little teams and drivers don't excite me a bit.

People care about PLM tests more because there's just one week left for autumn's best motorsport event...

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Sorry to spoil your fun then, I'm in minority and actually prefer those generic Lola-classes and petrol fights if my only other choice is Audi vs Peugeot... diesels and their arrogant little teams and drivers don't excite me a bit.

People care about PLM tests more because there's just one week left for autumn's best motorsport event...

No, I understand, and Id rather the generic Lola vs generic Lola or Pescarolo vs Rebellion than Audi vs Peugeot, its just thats why Im saying much more people care about PLM testing than LMS at Estoril or even some ALMS races.

As for the best motorsport event in autumn, thats a really hard one, but Im not sure I would give that title to Petit.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by arakis

can anyone give a rundown on the gt race, I had to go out for the last 4h, but I think I saw the jmw below 3rd with 5min to go, what happened?

JMW Ferrari won, you will be happy to know it just edged out a Porsche for the overall victory.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by JAG

Stronger competition raises everyones level and makes success all the more sweeter. Next years LMS will be a better product because the P2 battle should be deep and of high quality, the WEC P1 field will be more interesting if you have more top petrol teams pushing each other and closing the gap on the diesels (with a little help from the rule makers).

Very good post, cant say I disagree at all.

[J.C.]

Well looking a the results, Nissan power took 1,2 & 3 in LMP2 class. Didnt see the race, but that Nissan engine must be really good. Is it becasue it has alot of torque or something?

It would be cool to fit that engine in a Dome... (Dome S102) and see how well it does. LMP1 I guess, or 2.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

No, I understand, and Id rather the generic Lola vs generic Lola or Pescarolo vs Rebellion than Audi vs Peugeot, its just thats why Im saying much more people care about PLM testing than LMS at Estoril or even some ALMS races.

As for the best motorsport event in autumn, thats a really hard one, but Im not sure I would give that title to Petit.

I completely see your point. In many years PLM has been what we've looked forward to in September, but latterly Silverstone's been pretty good, and I think we've all been taken aback by what a spectacle Estoril put on for us - although sadly wasn't able to "show" us...

In many ways it's a sentiment that former DSC editor Malcolm Cracknell wrote about - in that the prospects for the WEC are fine, but compared to how 2004 and 2005 ended up shaping up - all without full manufacturer involvement - it's maybe not all cakes and circuses.

Over the last seven years the LMS has given us some fantastic down to the wire seasons. I distinctly remember stealing glimpses at a friends Sky feed late in 2005 trying to catch the Istanbul 1000 km in the aftermath of a wedding - and equally the finale in 2006 at Jarama had a lot going for it. Sure this year hasn't had the full grids up front, but Pescarolo and Rebellion proved that you can still create an entertaining spectacle with minimal raw materials.

Estoril, for me, may well end up going down as one of the races of season - exciting from start to end - dramas being thrown up - a lovely underdog result with Norma / Extreme Limite getting on the LMP2 podium - and a fundamentally nail biting race between two fantastic privateer LMP1 teams. I wasn't there, there wasn't any TV, and radio - like me - was in many ways dependent on watching a T&S screen, but it still kept me captivated, and here's the acid test, it delayed the cooking of dinner until the race was done.

More of this please.

[AGD]

I like the attitude that the LMS takes. Forget about trying to be "world class" and trying to appease all us message board fans. The LMS sticks to their plan and do what they do well. The LMS does LMP2 very well and they do a good job with GTE-Pro as well. The new LMS style of GTC could actually be intriguing. We'll see, but I'm looking forward to see how it works.

Back to LMP2, I know the class has not received a lot of respect this year, but the quality of the class has surprised this year in a positive way. There's some good drivers there and some good teams as well. I don't know how much attention the LMS will get next year, but those who will follow it will have their attention focused on some good efforts that typically aren't emphasized. Hopefully most of the teams will return for 2012. I'm sure some teams want a more solid calendar and media situation, but the racing is almost always really good.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by J.C.

Well looking a the results, Nissan power took 1,2 & 3 in LMP2 class. Didnt see the race, but that Nissan engine must be really good. Is it becasue it has alot of torque or something?

It would be cool to fit that engine in a Dome... (Dome S102) and see how well it does. LMP1 I guess, or 2.

No it didn't, the 2nd-placed car wasn't classified due to coming to a halt on the last lap on fire. Third-placed car is the Judd/BMW-powered Norma.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

No it didn't, the 2nd-placed car wasn't classified due to coming to a halt on the last lap on fire. Third-placed car is the Judd/BMW-powered Norma.

It was the 1st placed car on fire actually.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

It was the 1st placed car on fire actually.

2nd placed on the timing screens at the end of the race, the car behind (the 46 TDS Oreca) was on the same lap and passed it for position when it stopped. So at the flag, according to the timing screen, it was the 46, then the 45 shown a lap down, then the 41 a further lap down. Since the 45 didn't make it around the last lap, it gets taken out of that result.

[old man]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

JMW Ferrari won, you will be happy to know it just edged out a Porsche for the overall victory.

The margin at the flag was 1 second and the Porsche was alongside the Ferrari twice, some brilliant pictures on DSC. Looking at the table, that battle was for second place in the teams and drivers championship so JMW take both runner up slots and so qualify for the LM24 entry. Rob Bell and James Walker worked out to be a good partnership with Walker a novice so far as GT is concerned, Bell is a match for anybody and Walker will have learned a lot. His battle with Mark Leib was excellent and it is such a pity there was no TV.

Does anybody know if there will be a highlights programme?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by old man

Does anybody know if there will be a highlights programme?

According to Hindy, yes.

This was actually the first ACO-run race in a number of years I didn't follow a bit (apart from the few live timing checks). Too bad, sounds like it was a great show in P1 and upper GT2 ranks.

[old man]

Autosport gets it wrong again, according to their report the GTE battle was in GTE am. Surprised at Gary Watkins, slip of pen no doubt!

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by old man

Autosport gets it wrong again, according to their report the GTE battle was in GTE am. Surprised at Gary Watkins, slip of pen no doubt!

These are the same idiots who called GTE-Pro "formerly known as GT1" earlier this year... The truth is that they know nothing about motorsports outside Formula Dull, and maybe some spec series supporting it

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by old man

Autosport gets it wrong again, according to their report the GTE battle was in GTE am. Surprised at Gary Watkins, slip of pen no doubt!

Autosport website:

12 DAYS, 19 HOURS, 41 MINUTES AND 11 SECONDS BEFORE THE JAPANESE GRAND PRIX

TODAY'S TOP STORIES

F1: Hamilton needs to take a new approach

F1: Red Bull wont play safe

F1: Mclaren hopes to keep Vettel waiting

F1: Teams seek 2012 calendar clarification


This was not edited as these were the top stories.

[Deleted]

Autosport Plus, "premium online motorsport content" latest headlines:
The Singapore Grand Prix review
Why Raikkonen is not a risk
We rate the drivers after Singapore
Vettel closing in on more records
F1 2011: We review the game
The toughest turn in the DTM
The changing face of Formula 1
Deconstructing Formula 1: Sidepods
Five themes for the Singapore GP
Ferrari further away than it looks
Magazine: New faces at Ferrari?
The Singapore GP preview
Why Ducati isn't winning

I wouldn't bother with those articles even if they were subscription-free

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by Chiana

These are the same idiots who called GTE-Pro "formerly known as GT1" earlier this year... The truth is that they know nothing about motorsports outside Formula Dull, and maybe some spec series supporting it

Originally Posted by Chiana

Autosport Plus, "premium online motorsport content" latest headlines:
The Singapore Grand Prix review
Why Raikkonen is not a risk
We rate the drivers after Singapore
Vettel closing in on more records
F1 2011: We review the game
The toughest turn in the DTM
The changing face of Formula 1
Deconstructing Formula 1: Sidepods
Five themes for the Singapore GP
Ferrari further away than it looks
Magazine: New faces at Ferrari?
The Singapore GP preview
Why Ducati isn't winning

I wouldn't bother with those articles even if they were subscription-free

Some of the content is pretty cringe worthy. Seems as if most of the F1 press would happily write about driver bowel movements if someone were willing to start the trend.
Guess this is one of the few media-related areas where sportscar racing fans are treated very well.

[arakis]

can someone post the play by play gte pro battle in the last 2h plz...

[The Badger]

Autosport stopped being Autosport years ago , its just another F1 rag now .

[old man]

Originally Posted by arakis

can someone post the play by play gte pro battle in the last 2h plz...

Difficult to remember it all but the reports are all free on DSC, the bones of the last 2 hours or so were that the AF Corse car was out of contention because of a penalty so the battle was really just 77 and 66.

For the 3rd stops at more or less the same time Lietz handed over to Mark Lieb and Bell handed over to Walker. The 77 stop was quicker than the 66 and so Lieb led Walker by about 10 seconds if I recall. Up to this point 66 had more or less led all race except during pit stop phases. The question now was if Walker, a newcomer to LMS GT this year could catch Lieb or if the Porsche would pull away.

Gradually Walker caught Lieb and according to his post race comments got alongside on at least 2 occasions but with a driver of Lieb's experience the 77 kept the lead. The question now was what would happen at the last pit stop; would they both change driver and tyres or could one of them get away with just fuel. As the time for the final stops came it was a case of who would blink first, at least in my mind as I watched live timing and kept switching to DSC.

The 77 came in first and 66 led again and it was clear from the length of time before the run sign came up that they had done a full service, stop was 86 seconds according to DSC. 66 pitted next lap and they would now know what the Porsche had done and so did the same but got out in 84 seconds and Walker had done a quick in lap so Bell had about 4 seconds lead. On his next lap he put 3 other GTEs betwen himself and Lietz thus doubling his lead and then spent the whole of the last hour battling Lietz who was flying. Each would have a quicker or slower lap as they hit or were caught by traffic but as the live timing did not give actual gaps one had no idea of the gap unless you looked at DSC!

In the end the cars were nose to tail, Bell driving the widest Ferrari in the race and claiming afterwards that other Porsches became difficult to pass, twice on the last lap Lietz was alongside but Bell crossed the line .183 ahead!

Many comments here are from DSC but it was a great battle

Hope that helps!

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

2nd placed on the timing screens at the end of the race, the car behind (the 46 TDS Oreca) was on the same lap and passed it for position when it stopped. So at the flag, according to the timing screen, it was the 46, then the 45 shown a lap down, then the 41 a further lap down. Since the 45 didn't make it around the last lap, it gets taken out of that result.

Not true at all. The 46 was a lap behind. When the 45 car was on fire it was a lap ahead.

The 45 car wasn't classified due to not taking the chequered flag, nothing to do with not completing "the last lap."

Or maybe you still want to argue about it? Were you actually there?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Not true at all. The 46 was a lap behind. When the 45 car was on fire it was a lap ahead.

The 45 car wasn't classified due to not taking the chequered flag, nothing to do with not completing "the last lap."

Or maybe you still want to argue about it? Were you actually there?

It's what I interpreted from the timing screen. If it was wrong, I was wrong then. (P.S. Doesn't the last lap end with the chequered flag, or am I losing something in translation?)

EDIT: In other news, Karim Ojjeh will be retiring from driving duties.