Tech Issue Ferrari complaining about other cars again - Page 2

Greem · 5 Oct 2012, 10:05 (Ref:3146519)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

It is completely disingenuous to suggest there is no such thing as a "spirit of the regulations". Of course there is. The regulation prohibits flexible wings for a reason, the test was obviously not refined enough to dissuade some very clever people from cheating.

Ah, but is it "cheating", or is it "ingenious technical developments"?

Cheating is doing things like putting lead shot in your "cooling water", or running different tyre compounds to everyone else*, or having subroutines in your ECU code that can subversively be used to offer launch control. Or even more obvious things, like demanding your no 2 driver crashes into a wall to bring out a safety car. The list is very long indeed.

Ingenious technical developments are things like the DDD or EBD or F-duct, or (dare I say it) components that pass all relevant current deflection tests but then behave differently when a significant frontal drag load is placed on them. This list is equally long.

*not that it was ever proven, of course

The principal difference is that cheating is rarely copied; ingenious technical developments end up being run by everyone who can afford to develop their own versions and make them work.

The F1 tech regulations need a massive shake-up, in my opinion. There are layers upon layers upon layers of rules, resulting in an almost spec design for the cars and infinitesimal design changes through the year. I'd love to see a more open rulebook which allows the genius of Newey and his peers be able to make massive leaps of design... a bit like it used to be.

wnut · 9 Oct 2012, 22:56 (Ref:3149105)

What is the other form of cheating called, when your perfectly legal exhaust blown diffusers are suddenly deemed illegal in the middle of the season and then banned out of hand?
Then re-instated when the ban doesn't have the desired effect!

British GP last year.

Billy B · 9 Oct 2012, 23:14 (Ref:3149111)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamieshilling

I think it's funny how ferrari are always moaning and alonso always moans as well

they are like peas in a pod! lol

Sure seems that it's certain forum members rather than Ferrari that like to complain. What a collection of cheapshots against one team!

Can I remind everyone that when Ferrari had that innovative flexi-floor that made them the car to beat in early 2007, it was McLaren who brought it to the FIA's attention. All teams complain, and frankly it's what they're supposed to do, the FIA relies on the top teams to keep each other honest.

With Redbull's history, I think the FIA would be justified in checking out their cars before each and every race.

Marbot · 10 Oct 2012, 12:27 (Ref:3149373)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy B

With Redbull's history, I think the FIA would be justified in checking out their cars before each and every race.

Which they do. It's called 'scrutineering'.

And RedBull, unlike others, always seem to pass the tests.

Mr V · 10 Oct 2012, 18:13 (Ref:3149566)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy B

With Redbull's history, I think the FIA would be justified in checking out their cars before each and every race.

Just out of interest, what is Red Bull's history? Is it a history of cheating? Or a history of the other teams moaning about them because those teams can't seem to make a car as good as the Red Bull guys do?

Marbot · 10 Oct 2012, 18:38 (Ref:3149578)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Just out of interest, what is Red Bull's history? Is it a history of cheating? Or a history of the other teams moaning about them because those teams can't seem to make a car as good as the Red Bull guys do?

It's most definitely the latter, IMO.

When it comes to cheating, it's not RedBull that you should cast the first stone at.

**Aysedasi** · 10 Oct 2012, 19:01 (Ref:3149585)

...as far as you know.....

The likelihood is that they're all at it, to a greater or lesser degree.

wolfhound · 10 Oct 2012, 19:06 (Ref:3149590)

Red Bull seem to be the team who are able to bend the rules to the limit without breaking them.

They also seem to have been the team who led the FIA to more "clarifications" of the rules than anybody else in recent times.

fourWheelDrift · 10 Oct 2012, 19:23 (Ref:3149593)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Red Bull seem to be the team who are able to bend the rules to the limit without breaking them.

Properly written technical regulations do not bend, they make lines. If you don't cross them you are not cheating if you do you are, it's that simple. As far as technical regulations are concerned there is no spirit of the rules only lines, your job as a team is to push everything that can give you an advantage as far as that line and no further.

Best of all is to work out that the line is actually in a different place to where everyone else thinks it is, which is exactly what Ross (and others) did with the double diffuser. As long as you have understood it correctly and do not cross the line that's not cheating either.

MGDavid · 10 Oct 2012, 19:35 (Ref:3149596)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Properly written technical regulations......r.

that's irrelevant - until we have some

QnickFTW · 10 Oct 2012, 23:33 (Ref:3149666)

Ferrari can still cause some surprises, making the F2012 a championship winning car is not one of them

I wouldnt be too surprised if Seb got some controversial grid penalty at some point for blocking Massa in Q3 or something...

wnut · 11 Oct 2012, 00:51 (Ref:3149688)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Red Bull seem to be the team who are able to bend the rules to the limit without breaking them.

They also seem to have been the team who led the FIA to more "clarifications" of the rules than anybody else in recent times.

That is an FIA problem, not a RBR problem!

VIVA GT · 11 Oct 2012, 07:28 (Ref:3149782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Properly written technical regulations do not bend, they make lines. If you don't cross them you are not cheating if you do you are, it's that simple. As far as technical regulations are concerned there is no spirit of the rules only lines, your job as a team is to push everything that can give you an advantage as far as that line and no further.

Best of all is to work out that the line is actually in a different place to where everyone else thinks it is, which is exactly what Ross (and others) did with the double diffuser. As long as you have understood it correctly and do not cross the line that's not cheating either.

Well done fWD. I was thinking of posting something similar to this but you not only beat me to it, but did it far more eloquently too!

Billy B · 13 Oct 2012, 18:04 (Ref:3151024)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Just out of interest, what is Red Bull's history? Is it a history of cheating? Or a history of the other teams moaning about them because those teams can't seem to make a car as good as the Red Bull guys do?

Well, they've been in hot water with the FIA this year alone for: 1) Brake hubs, 2) engine mapping, 3) holes in the floor, and 4) parc ferme adjustment.

**Adam43** · 13 Oct 2012, 18:59 (Ref:3151061)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamieshilling

I think it's funny how ferrari are always moaning and alonso always moans as well

they are like peas in a pod! lol

I rank Teflonso quite low in the whinging stakes. Certainly compared to the average poster or even F1 driver.

Mr V · 13 Oct 2012, 19:04 (Ref:3151067)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy B

Well, they've been in hot water with the FIA this year alone for: 1) Brake hubs, 2) engine mapping, 3) holes in the floor, and 4) parc ferme adjustment.

And the verdict on each of those is ? They covered up the hole, yet we're still fast, what about the other bits?

wolfhound · 13 Oct 2012, 20:14 (Ref:3151093)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

And the verdict on each of those is ? They covered up the hole, yet we're still fast, what about the other bits?

They seem to be quite quick for the last couple of races despite all the other bits being restricted!

Greem · 13 Oct 2012, 20:31 (Ref:3151107)

Newey: Master of Deception. Certificate 18, at a cinema near you now!

Meaning*: all those things and still quick? They must be cheating!

*not really

Mr V · 13 Oct 2012, 21:14 (Ref:3151130)

Newey designed the fastest cars at Williams, McLaren and now Red Bull.

I see a pattern emerging here, and i'm sure it isn't cheating !

wolfhound · 3 Nov 2012, 10:22 (Ref:3161827)

We have a change in the the complainent its RB this time and Ferrari burning the candle at both ends trying to make their car quick!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103958

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103966

JohnSSC · 3 Nov 2012, 12:29 (Ref:3161862)

I thought that only Ferrari could whinge about another team?

**Aysedasi** · 4 Nov 2012, 17:58 (Ref:3162496)

Nah, that's just a figment of the RB and Mac fans imaginations......

**Bononi** · 4 Nov 2012, 19:48 (Ref:3162562)

It' part of the F1's imaginary...

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