What formula for 2009

[boygeorge]

I am seeking the assistance of members to develop my racing plans for 2009.


By way of background I am 33 and with extensive track day and motor cycle experience , mainly Caterhams, and are now wishiing to take a further step with the long term aim, 3-5 years , depending on finance of competing seriously in sports cars aiming initially for V de V in about 2-3 years. I believe that open wheelers would be best at this stage


The more I look at the various open wheel formulas the more confused I become.


It seems to me that a logical first step bearing in mind my longer term ambitions would be in one of the winged formulas in either F4 or monoposto as the same car could compete in both championships and possibly to rent at a later stage a S2000 sports car.


I am not interested in chasing championships but wish to have a concentrated racing experience in one year. I have the time to engage in extensive practice and would be able to allocate about 20-25 weekends for racing plus 1-2 days per week practice (my work is such that my time is very flexible). Would also wish to have some coaching with a sensible and experienced coach not a 19 year old FF hotshot


I know that every contributor would have their own preference but I would look to receiving advice from some of the experienced club racers, Mr Pearson?


I would be able for 2009 to purchase a car(s) for 15-25K and allow about 1-1.5 K per weekend. I do not have the experience or contacts to run a car myself but wish to more involved than with an arrive and drive.


All suggestions appreciated.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Look at Formula Ford Zetec bullet proof engines off the shelf cheap parts race for class wins in SEMSEC, Monoposto and F4 plus one off races like the Festival race and in Europe to if you wish, Spa Zolder etc

No wings to play with and break, totally adjustable modern multi chassis single seaters with dataloggers remote double or triple adjustable dampers.

Complete cars with spares that could win for sale from £7K to £9K. I am aware of a 2001 Van Diemen and 2003 Mygale for sale.

John

[FFmygale]

I'd agree with Triple J. (doesn't happen often!)

Quite simply, I don't think there is a better way to learn your skills than Formula ford (whether it be Kent, Zetec or Duratec engined). As a beginner the first thing you should be learning about is the mechanical grip of the car, you will develop less of this feel if you move straight to something with wings I believe. By all means progress on to winged cars, but start off with the basics it will serve you well in what ever you drive and, as Jon says, will also most probably be a cheaper option than winged cars to start with.

I'd say you need to consider Kent engined formula ford as well as Zetec. The engine on the Zetec is certainly pretty bullet proof (more so than a Kent engine I would say) and would be a good option if you just want to get out there and pound round on test days developing your skills. The kent engine 'could' be more troublesome but the racing is always competitive and good fun.

[SPBRacing]

Look at www.monoposto.co.uk Lots of classes and this year will be visiting most main UK circuits @ good prices.
Just straight racing in loads of different cars and varying abilities so you can race your way up the grid with a very very low budget.

[Bob Pearson]

George, I'm flattered that you asked for my personal opinion, well, I presume you meant me and not Ian. Anyway, we have raced together for so long now that it must be obvious that we think alike.
First of all, wings? slicks versus FF's. When I drifted out of sidecars and fancied single seaters in the early eighties I considered that and for me it had to be the former. I couldn't explain that, I just wanted that sort of car. I have spoken to many since that and found that most people believed pretty definately one way or the other, a few have some arguements for one or the other, but largely speaking it is the product of what looks right to you. Of the various arguements the only one which is valid is that when you hit something they usually need replacing. Some see them as an uneccessary complication, others as someting to experiment with and enjoy. So go with your own feeling where that is concerned.
The money you are proposing to spend makes any club formula open to you.
The user friendly cars from Formula Renault are no longer allowed in and, for most home mechanics Club F3 is a bit daunting. There licencing requirements rule that out for you.
You are aiming at a strange area when you don't seem to want to prepare the car, but want to be more involved than with an arrive and drive. There isn't much in the middle of those two positions, so, unless someone else has some idea you may have to decide which of those two directions to go in.
Perhaps a low cost arrive and drive, or paying a race engineer to attend the meeting and look after your car.
So which formula? first of all decide on the FF's or slicks and wings based on your own feel of what you want to see yourself in.
If its FF's, pick the age and type that allows you to run at the most meetings.
If its slicks and wings, look at URS FF2000, but pick the age of car that allows you to run at Historic meetings as well, they are really fun cars to drive, easy and cheap to run.
Other than that, F4 and Monoposto, but the classes have changed so much since I was in them that I cannot be specific on what I think is the best choice.
I have to say I was particularily impressed with the efforts the 750MC made to accomodate the old Formula Renaults when they ended their days with BARC. Only word of warning with 750MC, look carefully at their intended meeting layouts, in my day with them they had a habit of running too many races, and so the slightest hiccup lead to races being shortened, sometimes to as little as 5 laps. Not funny at todays entry costs.
Hopefully they have changed.

[JNWRF01]

All I can base my experience of 750 club is from this year - but we only had one "shortened" race - at Cadwell - 10 laps rather than the scheduled 15 (red flagged/delayed start (someone broke a driveshaft I think). Otherwise, you basically had 18mins + 1 lap everywhere...entries for double headers were c£300 - and you always gots the garages/middle afternoon slot. Good value - well - for motor racing anyway....

The club are also a friendly mob (as are the other F4 drivers) most of the class A guys (myself included) hire an engineer on the day to run their cars - but there is the option to run with a team. Barry Pomfet (posts on 10/10ths) runs a team/has cars for hire - as does Chris Hodgen at Absolute Racing...both of which can also help you with the driver coaching element, as both have lots of racing experience....

[boygeorge]

Thanks for your replies so far.


Upon reflection it seems that FF of some flavour is probably the best and most cost efficient way to go.


Leaning at this stage to perhaps a classic, pre 1982 FF for the URS series and a Zetec to in FFmygale 's words to pound around the track and enter on a one off basis in whatever event availble. The reason for the classic series is that the drivers seem to be more my age and I would hope that I would be able to gain an idea of my progress against the field over a season- presumably starting in the last 1/4 and hopefully progressing as the season continues.


I would prefer to purchase both cars but would have the classic car run for me and to learn on the Zetec the other aspects of racing, setting up management etc. The cars seem to hold their value and it would be cheaper to buy rather than rent particularly over 2 seasons.


I have allowed about 10k per each car wihich should be sufficent and about 1K per race weekend and 500 for each testing day - are these figures realistic.


Any comments or suggestions appreciated,

[ianpearson]

Originally Posted by boygeorge

I have allowed about 10k per each car wihich should be sufficent and about 1K per race weekend and 500 for each testing day - are these figures realistic.


Any comments or suggestions appreciated,

I think you would need to factor in more money for testing & race weekends, somebody may do it for that, if that was there wages. But you would need to put expenses on top of that & cover things like your entries, fuel, accomodation, car wear & tear, consumables.
see below for a breakdown of basic weekend pre VAT costs for a doubleheader at silverstone, this does not include fuel to get there. Accomodation includes a room for the driver & half the cost of the mechanic/race engineer

Cost
entry 410
Testing 104.25
accomodation 140
fuel 80.57
Food 74.9
tyres 0
parts 0

Total 809.72

[SCOBER11]

If your thinking CFF kent try Bernard Baxter he has run quite a few competitors for a long time in that championship and i see my old car back for sale on the net it won the championship in 07. Bernard will do driver coaching as well if you can stand a Northern English accent

If its CFF2000 then try URS they'll know where to source good cars.

[FA73]

As their membership secretary and a regular Class B runner I am obviously biased but I reckon Classic FF1600 would be a great place to start. You could run for less than the figures you quoted (both for car purchase and running costs) and therefore spend the extra on testing to get more miles under your wheels.

We race all over the place - visit our website www.classicformulaford.com
for more info including car eligibility, cars for sale, technical regs, race reports etc etc...

We make a extra effort to look after new Drivers too - including a mentoring system (if you want) and a novice championship (the prize is an engine rebuild). We had a Guy join us at the last Silverstone D/Header in October and he had a couple of car problems - within 1/2 an hour of his arriving he had the Championship leader and the Main Sponsor helping to fix his car while other Drivers showered him with advice about the circuit etc etc....!!

There is also the option to move up to Classic FF2000 which runs at the same meetings.

[andy97]

Remember that if you buy a FF1600, FF1800 or FF2000 you can also taking races in Monoposto 1600, Mono 1800 and Mono 1800 respectively. (and yes the FF1800s & FF 2000 (Pinto) both run in Mono 1800).

[Barry Pomfret]

PM sent to you Boygeorge.

[Jon Davis]

You have a PM!