[Official] Round 17: Indian Grand Prix

[chunder]

I find it siply staggering that in a year when there has been little consistency all of a sudden one car is so much better than the rest of the grid.

A little boring to be honest, you dont get that sense as you did earlier in the year of watching a "I dont know who is going to win" race.

Fair play to RedBull, but this has all the interest to me of watching his former German automaton win machine

[CTD]

Originally Posted by chunder

I find it siply staggering that in a year when there has been little consistency all of a sudden one car is so much better than the rest of the grid.

A little boring to be honest, you dont get that sense as you did earlier in the year of watching a "I dont know who is going to win" race.

Fair play to RedBull, but this has all the interest to me of watching his former German automaton win machine

I agree.
The problem is probably to be found in Adrian Newey, who is simply a genius without direct comparison, and the fact that he is, means no other team can match his work through the season.

[Mr V]

People weren't saying how boring it was regarding Adrian's car's when they were McLaren's and they were propelling Mika and David against Michael.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Mr V

People weren't saying how boring it was regarding Adrian's car's when they were McLaren's and they were propelling Mika and David against Michael.

That's because McLaren management always seem to mess up their upper hand. For most of this season they had the best car, with some of the best drivers, and can't win any of the Championships without Ferrari or Red Bull making mistakes.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by CTD

For most of this season they had the best car, with some of the best drivers,

Funny how, when McLaren have the best car, nothing seems to be said about it, but when the Red Bull comes to the fore all hell breaks loose.

[bella]

Originally Posted by CTD

I agree.
The problem is probably to be found in Adrian Newey, who is simply a genius without direct comparison, and the fact that he is, means no other team can match his work through the season.

time to ban adrian newey? maybe it's time mr ecclestone used his billions to give mr newey a nice wedge of cash and a desert island to retire to

[Razzzor]

Yeah it looks like Alonso's resorting to mind games now, mentioning at least a couple times that he's not fighting Vettel or Webber, but Newey. I'd find that a little disrespectful if I were Vettel. But at least Vettel didn't lower himself to that level and just said it's a team effort. And even in the qualy interview Alonso had to put out there that when the cars were even he was ahead. Of course he couldn't possibly know if the cars were really even. For all we know the Ferrari is the fastest in the field but Alonso and Massa are the problem (unlikely, but it's possible... it's not like Alonso has a team mate to measure himself against).

And is there a single interview that goes by with Alonso where he doesn't re-inforce the fact that the Ferrari isn't fast enough? Never, ever mentions himself, even after he threw it away hitting Kimi. But he's always running the car down. Surely this is bad advertising for the Ferrari road cars cars when you're lead face of the company has to constantly state that they need improvements. Is he that insecure in what the public might think of his skill?

Reminds me of 2006 when he used these same tactics with a number of remarks be-belittling Schumacher. That's when I really started to dislike him. No one really plays the psychological game these days, except him. But I don't think it would work against Vettel.

[QnickFTW]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Yeah it looks like Alonso's resorting to mind games now,

He sure does. I'd rather he took the high road, but he is cleary getting frustrated and it's been a while we've seen a true "Magic Alonso" drive, instead we see a Massa who seemingly more than caught up with his pace (anyone noticed how Massa was a staggering 6 tenth ahead of him in the first sector on their fastest lap?....curiously dropping back towards the end of the lap.... also dropping back in Korea ... less curiously tho)

This Newey comment is a bit of a cheap shot. Just for the record, here is how Vettel -most probably the best qualifier of this era- qualified for some of the races this season:

AUS - 6th
MAL - 5th
CHI - 11th
SPA - 7th
CAN - 9th
BEL - 10th
ITA - 5th

Where were Newey at these races when that was the real pace of the car then? It was clearly an amazing team effort to come back from these early to mid-season forms and be where they are now.

Giving the car's designer more credit than you do for the drivers is maybe justified in situations when the car is just ridiculously fast out of the box, wherever, whenever (`ala Brawn 09)... it wasnt quite the case with this year's Red Bull. It took a whole team and certainly a lot of work in the simulator to get to where they are now with that car.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by QnickFTW

Where were Newey at these races when that was the real pace of the car then? It was clearly an amazing team effort to come back from these early to mid-season forms and be where they are now.

It's amazing what can be achieved during that summer break; a chance to work on all that data and not be distracted by having to actually race.

[QnickFTW]

Spa and Monza (the first two races after the break) were some of the worst races for Red Bull (Qualifying P10 and P12 for Spa and double DNF with not much pace in Monza)

Marko said in an interview that they were focusing on 1-lap pace more than anything, knowing light-to-flag is what Vettel does best, so the car still isnt superior in the races. Qualifying-wise it's mainly down to their new and improved double DRS Marko reckons.

[Razzzor]

Thought I'd compare RB and Alonso in qualifying, not that it proves much.

Vettel Alonso Webber
AUS - 6th 12th 5th
MAL - 5th 9th 4th
CHI - 11th 9th 7th
BHR - 1st 9th 3rd
SPA - 7th 2nd 11th
MON - 10th 6th 1st
CAN - 1st 3rd 4th
EUR - 1st 11th 19th
BRI - 4th 1st 2nd
GER - 2nd 1st 3rd
HUN - 3rd 6th 11th
BEL - 11th 6th 7th
ITA - 6th 10th 11th
SIN - 3rd 5th 7th
JAP - 1st 7th 2nd
KOR - 2nd 4th 1st
IND - 1st 5th 2nd

5.23 6.54 6.77 Avg up till Italy
4.41 6.2 5.88 Avg to date


Alonso has outqualified Webber 9 times in 17 races but Vettel only 5. In fact Alonso, up until Italy had a better average start position than Webber, but Vettel was quite a bit ahead.

But with the RB front row lockouts in the last three races, they're both ahead of Alonso. So Vettel definitely has the edge in qualifying, although it's a close 10-7 between the team mates, the average is a bit higher with Webber missing the top 10 four times.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Funny how, when McLaren have the best car, nothing seems to be said about it, but when the Red Bull comes to the fore all hell breaks loose.

Again. When McLaren have the best car, they mess things up, so they can't dominate anyway. So there is nothing to complain about.
However, when Red Bull has the better car, then they just dominate from FP1 till the end of the race.

Originally Posted by bella

time to ban adrian newey? maybe it's time mr ecclestone used his billions to give mr newey a nice wedge of cash and a desert island to retire to

I think it is Bella, even though i think he will be kicking and screaming when they try

[FAS33]

100 bucks Mark Webber will win this for sure

[gregtummer]

This track has some balls. I like it. That turn 5-9 complex is wicked fast.

This is one of the best newer tracks that have been built.

[bjohnsonsmith]

That was a great aerial shot of the cars on the grid and the red tail lights pulsing, in two rows.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Exciting stuff at the start. Lewis, Button and Alonso. Button came out on top.

Vettel squeezed Webber at the start; like to see the re-play.

[CTD]

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[bjohnsonsmith]

That extended DRS zone has made a difference.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Finger Boy does it again. Nice comeback from Alonso with second but there is now a 13 points difference.

[FAS33]

was only 2 positions off, Finger boy lol! nice comeback from Hamilton, Alonso good 2nd place didnt look too happy with it though. Seb for 3rd WDC, seems to me germans have all the Gp's , time for others to have a turn maybe next year...

[QnickFTW]

Kimi needs to win all 3 of the remaining races with Vettel not scoring more than 7 points and Alonso not scoring more than 20 points.

Mark needs to win all 3 of the remaining races with Vettel not scoring more than 1 point and Alonso not scoring more than 15 points.

Hamilton needs to win all 3 of the remaning races with Vettel not scoring at all and Alonso not scoring more than 13 points.

So it's a full-on 2-way battle (will be in strict mathematical terms too by the time we leave Abu Dhabi)

[chunder]

Whole thing just has an air of inevititability

Alonso is absolutely spot on with his comments, if Seb wins this series, anymopre than any other it is Neweys.

He rarely misses the point to let us know, and in a season where it has been very unpredictable, for all of a sudden one car to be utterly dominant is the best way of putting it over.

This will be Newey's championship, just so happens Seb is driving, but anyone in the top ten would be doing similar.

I do hope he goes to Ferrari, as if he carries on at Red Bull and Newey stays, I can foresee a staggeringly dull few years ahead.

As for the pople saying we werent moaning when Mclaren were winning, well everyone had a chance really, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren Renault, Mercedes even Sauber or Williams at times, now it is a one car show.

[QnickFTW]

is it the shorest race thread ever?

i dont expect a lot of 10 votes in the "rate the race" thread then.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by QnickFTW

is it the shorest race thread ever?

i dont expect a lot of 10 votes in the "rate the race" thread then.

The BBC are showing the highlights just after 2:00pm, so I'm sure there will be plenty of more posts, during and after.

[QnickFTW]

Originally Posted by chunder

Whole thing just has an air of inevititability

Alonso is absolutely spot on with his comments, if Seb wins this series, anymopre than any other it is Neweys.

He rarely misses the point to let us know, and in a season where it has been very unpredictable, for all of a sudden one car to be utterly dominant is the best way of putting it over.

This will be Newey's championship, just so happens Seb is driving, but anyone in the top ten would be doing similar.

I do hope he goes to Ferrari, as if he carries on at Red Bull and Newey stays, I can foresee a staggeringly dull few years ahead.

As for the pople saying we werent moaning when Mclaren were winning, well everyone had a chance really, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren Renault, Mercedes even Sauber or Williams at times, now it is a one car show.

and you have 5000 posts? wow.
just for the record Alonso's car was good enough to beat Red Bull today (driven by a 9 times winner) and so was Massa's. Massa had an obviously better start than Alonso, it was very painful to see how he had to lift and leave Nando alone, but in an Alonso-less race it would have been Massa on the podium today.