It's building up... - Page 2

barnettracing · 28 Oct 2012, 17:17 (Ref:3159082)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

I have my opinion...

This is just racing and that's the way it goes.

Exactly. Fangio often found himself in the best machinery. So did Clark (when it held together). So did Schumacher in the Ferrari years.

There are occasions when a driver doesn't win in the best car (Prost '86, Stewart in the Tyrrells etc.), but getting yourself into the best car/team has always been part of motor racing and always will be. Any of the drivers listed wouldn't have won if they had been in back-of-the-grid machinery. Though Clark did once

Tom Kristensen is a Le Mans legend, yet a lot of his wins came at a time when he was driving dominant Audi machinery. The same could be said of Ickx at Porsche.

The fact that Vettel is on course to achieve 27 wins from 99 races (the same win% as Stewart) suggests he is up there with the greats. The wins percentage is a statistic that is often forgotten these days, as drivers rack up wins more often thanks to the huge race schedule.

To go slightly off topic, here is a quick table of 'top' drivers over the last 60 years including their win percentage:

Name	Wins	Starts	Win%
Juan Manual Fangio	24	51	47.06
Alberto Ascari	13	32	40.63
Jim Clark	25	72	34.72
Michael Schumacher	91	304	29.93
Jackie Stewart	27	99	27.27
Sebastian Vettel	26	98	26.53
Alain Prost	51	199	25.63
Ayrton Senna	41	161	25.47
Stirling Moss	16	66	24.24
Damon Hill	22	115	19.13
Lewis Hamilton	20	107	18.69
Fernando Alonso	30	193	15.54
Niki Lauda	25	171	14.62
Mika Hakkinen	20	161	12.42
Nelson Piquet	23	204	11.27
Jack Brabham	14	126	11.11
Kimi Raikkonen	18	173	10.40
Emerson Fittipaldi	14	144	9.72
Mario Andretti	12	128	9.38

formerf1champ · 29 Oct 2012, 08:02 (Ref:3159376)

Quote:

Originally Posted by QnickFTW

It's good to have it confirmed then. Your comments certainly seem to hold some water (or at least some Austrialian Sour-Grape Juice

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Oh yer that's right, Webber's the best out there

What, the two of you think I'm a fan of that goose?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tux

Ask yourself this, how much of the Torro Rosso win was down to having a full wet setup? Looking at pictures the rear wing is much larger than anything Mclaren or Ferrari ran in Qualifying or the race. It was a great drive in horrible conditions im not denying that but that one victory whilst being impressive is does not mean he is a "godlike" driver.

Hmm, I never considered this at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tux

Of course Vettel is a fantastic driver, just look at the way he constantly sets fastest laps during a GP and can turn the one lap pace on instantly at any point during a weekend. When he wins the title it will be well deserved because hes still had to drive the car, its not as if Newey is driving it as well as designing it.

How about that for a new rule. If Adrian Newey designs a car, he has to drive it?

Thaw Daggerslash · 29 Oct 2012, 09:34 (Ref:3159415)

On the basis this thread is for driver bashing, I'll join in.

I'll never understand why so many people rate Hamilton so highly. You say Vettel has only won in the best car. Well so has Hamilton! He's only been with McLaren since he joined the sport, and STILL only won one title. Most years he can't go through a season without choking or doing/saying something dumb, and he's not a "great" at all in my opinion. Once he moves to Mercedes will this smoke screen of him being one of the best in F1 will fade, and we'll see how poor he actually is compared to Vettel and Alonso.

Still, he's so obsessed with his "celebrity lifestyle" that he probably won't care...he'll be happy to hang out with all his black rapper friends and generally make a tit out of himself once again.

Not to mention he's on his way to becoming the next Jacques Villeneuve, very good in his first year, wins the title in his second year, and is distinctly average from then on.

Phew, that was fun.

Peat · 29 Oct 2012, 09:43 (Ref:3159420)

All i know is that i have fallen asleep during the last 2 GP's.

Either i am slowly turning into my father, or they were just really dull.

Red Bull's current form just makes the championship a foregone conclusion.

wolfhound · 29 Oct 2012, 09:48 (Ref:3159422)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

All i know is that i have fallen asleep during the last 2 GP's.

Either i am slowly turning into my father, or they were just really dull.

Red Bull's current form just makes the championship a foregone conclusion.

Until somebody takes a big out braking go at the second corner in Abu Dhabi takes out Vettel and Alonso wins, or there's another alternator failure.

Peat · 29 Oct 2012, 10:18 (Ref:3159433)

Well yeah. Alonso can only 'luck-in' on the championship now. No way can they 'take it'.

**Bononi** · 29 Oct 2012, 12:54 (Ref:3159506)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

Well yeah. Alonso can only 'luck-in' on the championship now. No way can they 'take it'.

With 3 races to go and the gap between them, I still say that anything is possible... Teflonso is a hell of a driver and is always fighting until the end.

Marbot · 29 Oct 2012, 14:38 (Ref:3159563)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I have sold my ticket to our Grand Prix, what's the point................

There must have been a 'point' to the 1988 season?

*Jeremy checks avatar*

It's Vettel vs Alonso, and they're in two different cars.

F1 has just become very 'bad' for some.

Mr V · 29 Oct 2012, 15:06 (Ref:3159575)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I have sold my ticket to our Grand Prix, what's the point................

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

There must have been a 'point' to the 1988 season?

*Jeremy checks avatar*

I assume/hope that Jeremy was actually joking !

JeremySmith · 29 Oct 2012, 15:16 (Ref:3159578)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

I assume/hope that Jeremy was actually joking !

I was just joking guys, all in all its been a great season IMHO...

JeremySmith · 29 Oct 2012, 15:19 (Ref:3159580)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

With 3 races to go and the gap between them, I still say that anything is possible... Teflonso is a hell of a driver and is always fighting until the end.

Totally !

Marbot · 29 Oct 2012, 15:58 (Ref:3159610)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

I assume/hope that Jeremy was actually joking !

I assumed/hoped that he was doing that too. Why on earth would he want to sell his ticket.

Yes, the competition has effectively been narrowed down to just two drivers. Nothing new about that.

chillibowl · 29 Oct 2012, 16:19 (Ref:3159626)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Nothing new about that.

nothing new with that or nothing wrong with it either imo.

expectations have been raised to high. its old ground but part of that is the fault of the rules and the expectation that each and every GP should be the greatest thing ever.

tbh, im actually surprised more people dont agree with the original poster.

Marbot · 29 Oct 2012, 16:32 (Ref:3159632)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

tbh, im actually surprised more people dont agree with the original poster.

Who really knows who is the best driver? It's all very subjective. It could be Perez or Hulkenburg for all that anyone really knows.

F1 is all about the circumstances as they are at the time. Hamilton, for example, isn't driving a RedBull because he committed himself to other things early in his career.

Circumstances are what win and lose F1 titles.

chillibowl · 29 Oct 2012, 16:50 (Ref:3159641)

sorry i meant more about his comment about how anti climactic the title challenge has become not necessarily the fact that he is just not a fan of (or rates) who is currently winning.

do agree that the 'who is the best' is very subjective.

Marbot · 29 Oct 2012, 17:40 (Ref:3159663)

We would all like for it to go to Brazil with six drivers standing a reasonable chance of claiming the championship. But I'll go back to my 1988 example where there were only ever two contenders for the title from the first race onwards! That's just how it can be and how it could be again, particularly from 2014 onwards.

It is what it is.

chillibowl · 29 Oct 2012, 17:49 (Ref:3159667)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

It is what it is.

agreed. Marbot you have to remember im the guy who holds a minority opinion in that i dont mind processional races or a forgone conclusion of who the winner is because for me there is inherent value when one team gets things so very right.

JHamilton · 29 Oct 2012, 18:11 (Ref:3159676)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

Well yeah. Alonso can only 'luck-in' on the championship now. No way can they 'take it'.

You never know when Grosjean will qualify third or Maldonado has a spasm as he is being lapped.

Mr V · 30 Oct 2012, 15:38 (Ref:3160180)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

With 3 races to go and the gap between them, I still say that anything is possible... Teflonso is a hell of a driver and is always fighting until the end.

As Sebastian proved in 2010, it's never over till its over, same with Kimi in 2007. It could all turn around for Fernando and he won't ever give up while there is still a chance.

**Aysedasi** · 30 Oct 2012, 18:55 (Ref:3160255)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

agreed. Marbot you have to remember im the guy who holds a minority opinion in that i dont mind processional races or a forgone conclusion of who the winner is because for me there is inherent value when one team gets things so very right.

One man's meat........

And you never know - Vettel could just have some less innocuous sparks from his RB.... Let's wait until the fat lady sings..... I refuse to give up hope of a decent finish to the season.

**Bononi** · 30 Oct 2012, 21:57 (Ref:3160322)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

One man's meat........

And you never know - Vettel could just have some less innocuous sparks from his RB.... Let's wait until the fat lady sings..... I refuse to give up hope of a decent finish to the season.

Absolutely.

wnut · 30 Oct 2012, 22:55 (Ref:3160353)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Who really knows who is the best driver? It's all very subjective. It could be Perez or Hulkenburg for all that anyone really knows.

F1 is all about the circumstances as they are at the time. Hamilton, for example, isn't driving a RedBull because he committed himself to other things early in his career.

Circumstances are what win and lose F1 titles.

Aint this the truth!

**Born Racer** · 1 Nov 2012, 23:03 (Ref:3161290)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

I do wish people would stop giving Vettel crap and just chocking it up to it only being the car.

With the title slipping away from their darling, Spanish media are now doing this of course, with the word Vettel substituted by Newey now. Pretty funny and the mark of a poor loser.

wnut · 1 Nov 2012, 23:05 (Ref:3161292)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

With the title slipping away from their darling, Spanish media are now doing this of course, with the word Vettel substituted by Newey now. Pretty funny and the mark of a poor loser.

Wonder how much Ferrari are offering Newey to join them!

Clean out the Vatican and let him move in?

**Born Racer** · 1 Nov 2012, 23:26 (Ref:3161306)

From what I gather, Newey is happy enough in England and sees through the myth of Ferrari enough not to want to head there.

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