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Old 9 May 2005, 08:10 (Ref:1296339)   #1
Andrew Palmer
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Andrew Palmer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Keep off the grass

This is a general question to Racer's, Senior Officall's and Marshall's.

Has MSV set new rules about driving on the grass?

I.E. If you cut a corner or run wide you are penalized for going on the grass even if you are avoiding an incident.
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Old 9 May 2005, 09:21 (Ref:1296387)   #2
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JP's tidied up some of the run-off, particularly at Cadwell. It needs time to bed down, so MSV want to keep cars off the grass. I wandered past the marshals briefing at Cadwell yesterday and there was specific mention of reporting cars using these new areas of run-off. So, no, the rules haven't been changed (MSV couldn't change MSA rules...) - they are just being strenously applied.
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Old 9 May 2005, 11:49 (Ref:1296540)   #3
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I imagine the Clerks at the meeting will show discretion though - ie. if you do run onto the grass to avoid piling into someone, you shouldn't be penalised. Whereas if you go cross country on more than one occasion, even if you don't actually gain advantage by doing so, you probably will find yourself summoned!
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Old 9 May 2005, 13:51 (Ref:1296654)   #4
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Perhaps this would be better in Racers?

FWIW there are some places where they put plastic markers, the two chicanes at Combe come to mind. You can ride the kerbs but brush or indeed displace a marker and its black flag time.
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Old 9 May 2005, 14:59 (Ref:1296712)   #5
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woodyracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
the other week at Brands, 750mc drivers were told we are not allowed to use even the kerbs (I try not to anyway as it seems to upset the balance of the car). Even so, i still had a grassy moment when i was forced off, heh.
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Old 9 May 2005, 15:59 (Ref:1296762)   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graeme
(MSV couldn't change MSA rules...)
I wouldn't put money on that statemernt graeme.
And going we will be playing out again at Anglesey in early December.
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Old 9 May 2005, 17:22 (Ref:1296853)   #7
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Perhaps this would be better in Racers?
Agreed! I've moved it and left a redirect in Trackside.
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Old 9 May 2005, 18:24 (Ref:1296915)   #8
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Agreed! I've moved it and left a redirect in Trackside.
No comment on driving on the grass from the Mighty Mini driver's viewpoint, then?
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Old 9 May 2005, 20:17 (Ref:1297016)   #9
Andrew Palmer
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Andrew Palmer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Now the reason for asking this question is in November BARC are running a meeting with trucks at Brand Hatch.


Roll on November the grass stands no chance.

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Old 9 May 2005, 20:37 (Ref:1297032)   #10
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After November they will have all winter to dig it up (what's left of it) and make more changes to the run off, then re-lay it all in the spring.
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Old 12 May 2005, 10:45 (Ref:1299062)   #11
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At Combe on the bank holiday we were told that we could have the black bit between the lines, that thats what we had paid for and we could do what we liked on it.

the bit outside the lines was theirs and could we not go on it... if we did persistently, then they would black flag us.

it was pointed out that lines are inside the kerbs at Combe.

But I thought, hasn't that always been the "official" rule anyway ??

(I even rember a F1 GP in Oz(I think?) when someone kept straying off the track to keep some wets wet, and Murray was saying that technically that was outside the rules)
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Old 12 May 2005, 14:28 (Ref:1299209)   #12
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graeme should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveStyles
it was pointed out that lines are inside the kerbs at Combe.
You can drive through Folly, on the tarmac, with four wheels over the line. Never got a satisfactory decision from the CoC on whether that was allowed...
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Old 12 May 2005, 15:54 (Ref:1299267)   #13
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Andrew Palmer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Black and white bits the drivers, green and brown bits are the marshals. If we keep to our own colours no problem.

The point is I have seen the damage trucks do to grass and armco lets face it not much stops a truck normally only another truck.

But if JP is having some stress with cars not keeping off his grass how is he going to be after lap one of trucks.

Get the special suit ready.
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Old 12 May 2005, 22:25 (Ref:1299507)   #14
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Should be like golf. Go on the grass by all means, but you must stop and replace your divots.
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Old 13 May 2005, 01:26 (Ref:1299572)   #15
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Slippy Diff should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I remember drivers briefings at Brands where we told that straying onto the old circuit on the exit of paddock would be tolerated about once, any more than that and you would be black flagged. Fine, no problem, some drivers were pulled in and 'told'. It is just that usually in the preceeding weeks the BTCC would visit Brands and the drivers would consistantly, for lap after lap, use this part of the circuit. It was just another example of them and us that exists in racing.
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Old 13 May 2005, 22:10 (Ref:1300385)   #16
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silver bullet should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsilver bullet should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsilver bullet should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asp
I imagine the Clerks at the meeting will show discretion though - ie. if you do run onto the grass to avoid piling into someone, you shouldn't be penalised. Whereas if you go cross country on more than one occasion, even if you don't actually gain advantage by doing so, you probably will find yourself summoned!
At the rallycross meeting last October we were told we had not to go on the grass or we would be excluded from the race. Where we turn onto the loose at tumbledown several drivers went off throughout the day, (some trying to avoid an accident) and every one who went off was excluded.
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Old 14 May 2005, 19:08 (Ref:1300932)   #17
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TomS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If you are avoiding an accident than that should be allowed...also i think you should be allowed to use kerbs but NO more ie no markers grass etc unless avoiding accidents...if its the odd occasion thats fine you cant really exclude a car that spun onto the grass can you just persistant offendors should be excluded
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Old 6 Jun 2005, 11:59 (Ref:1321266)   #18
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Andrew Palmer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Having spent Sunday at Cadwell with again 750MC damage to the grass is still happening. Including a skid mark left by a rescue unit. What is going to happen this time! MSV going to write to ever driver involved and charge them fo the replacement grass seed. This said one MR2 driver found away to have an incident and not touch the grass until he landed. His nose was on top of the tyre wall and back wheels just touching the grass.
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Old 6 Jun 2005, 12:10 (Ref:1321279)   #19
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Originally Posted by Andrew Palmer
Having spent Sunday at Cadwell with again 750MC damage to the grass is still happening. Including a skid mark left by a rescue unit. What is going to happen this time! MSV going to write to ever driver involved and charge them fo the replacement grass seed. This said one MR2 driver found away to have an incident and not touch the grass until he landed. His nose was on top of the tyre wall and back wheels just touching the grass.
I'll post my bit back to them, it's still stuck to the bottom of the car.
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Old 6 Jun 2005, 21:43 (Ref:1321825)   #20
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Originally Posted by Slippy Diff
I remember drivers briefings at Brands where we told that straying onto the old circuit on the exit of paddock would be tolerated about once, any more than that and you would be black flagged. Fine, no problem, some drivers were pulled in and 'told'. It is just that usually in the preceeding weeks the BTCC would visit Brands and the drivers would consistantly, for lap after lap, use this part of the circuit. It was just another example of them and us that exists in racing.
Spot on!!

A couple of years ago at brands, we in Formula Honda were told that if we touched one of the cones put on the grass edge of the kerb on the exit of Graham Hill, we would be black flagged and out.

I was there yesterday and the BTCC casr and Clios particularly were 1/2 a car width over that kerb almost every lap in some cases.
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Old 8 Jun 2005, 09:20 (Ref:1323002)   #21
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Originally Posted by REALIST
I was there yesterday and the BTCC casr and Clios particularly were 1/2 a car width over that kerb almost every lap in some cases.
I remember when the touring cars did one lap shot out's. One driver complained about the gravel on the track left by the car in front of him. The gravel was in fact the wrong side of the Paddock Hill curbing the bit he should not have been on anyway. And I don't know any Marshal that would run across the gravel and sweep the track clean between cars on any lap.

The answer to stopping car running wide and using bits of circuit they shouldn't is to remove the run off. Look at Monaco armco all round but very few cars run wide and hit it twice.
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Old 8 Jun 2005, 09:50 (Ref:1323029)   #22
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Greasing the kerbs might stop it
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Old 8 Jun 2005, 10:51 (Ref:1323074)   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Palmer
I remember when the touring cars did one lap shot out's. One driver complained about the gravel on the track left by the car in front of him. The gravel was in fact the wrong side of the Paddock Hill curbing the bit he should not have been on anyway. And I don't know any Marshal that would run across the gravel and sweep the track clean between cars on any lap.

The answer to stopping car running wide and using bits of circuit they shouldn't is to remove the run off. Look at Monaco armco all round but very few cars run wide and hit it twice.

Ahhh that was our old friend Mr Plato who followed Matt Neals 'hot lap'. Mr Plato caused quite a stir when he made disparaging comments about the men in orange to Autosport. When the BTCC boys came back to Brands later that year I popped into the local newsagent on my way to the circuit to buy a 'sorry you are leaving' card (Williams Renault had pulled out of the BTCC). All the guys on Post 4A signed the card, the envelope was half filled with gravel, and handed to his race mechanics to pass to Jason. On the parade lap I walked in front of his car sweeping the track all the way from Post 3 to Post 4 which didn't amuse Mr Plato one iota.
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Old 8 Jun 2005, 10:53 (Ref:1323077)   #24
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I've actually got a photograph of me sweeping, just remembered
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Old 8 Jun 2005, 11:13 (Ref:1323094)   #25
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Spot on!!

A couple of years ago at brands, we in Formula Honda were told that if we touched one of the cones put on the grass edge of the kerb on the exit of Graham Hill, we would be black flagged and out.

I was there yesterday and the BTCC casr and Clios particularly were 1/2 a car width over that kerb almost every lap in some cases.
They are still doing that. Cant remember if it was testing or racing , but halfway through the day, cones went out and we were warned that hitting them would mean exclusion from the rest of the days event.

Too many cars had spun on the exit of GH that day and caused red flags.


Suppose its one way of making sure the event continues to timetable.
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