[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[canaglia]

the link is this

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2020.12.16.pdf

page 92
Using a sim games mod tool, I'll try to recreate the torque/power curve as suggested by that graph

[Spyderman]

Thank you all.

[canaglia]

honestly I still can't understand correctly that target power curve... because you know... it simply goes against physics lol...


you can see that according to the target curve and the table at side, the max power release increases constantly up to reach the top of 500KW at 95% of max torque peak release (0.95 N/Nmax)... then once it reaches 97.5% and 100% of max torque peak, the power curve of that graph is supposed to decrease! but that's basically impossible because increasing torque after top power is already reached, power will keep on increase as well! if an engine gets 500KW at 95% of torque release, at 100% will get >500KW anyhow and not less as this graph.
The peak of torque (basically value 1 of N/Nmax) is always reached before the top power, small-mid NA engines reach the peak of torque close to the peak of power at higher rpm; large NA engines and turbo engines usually reach the peak of torque at mid rpm, however before the peak of power, because it's how things work...

That power curve growth layout is basically the one of a mid/high-rev engine, likely NA, but values of N/Nmax torque are wrong... it had to be something like 464-475KW reached at 1.0 N/Nmax and top 500KW at about 0.85 N/Nmax. Or it's something I just can't understand or it basically doesn't make any sense... unless N/Nmax means something else unrelated to torque release, but if it was, why engine speed is indicated with that and not with a rpm range table according to possible rpm revlimits as happens with IMSA bop sheets?

[carbsmith]

It clearly says that column is engine speed and N/NMax is just a dimensionless fraction, I don't know why you think it must be Nm.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

It clearly says that column is engine speed and N/NMax is just a dimensionless fraction, I don't know why you think it must be Nm.

I clearly see that on X axis there is engine speed, but what does mean N/Nmax as dimensionsless fraction, or maybe you mean friction? can't understand the correlation

[TF110]

Its confusing to say the least. All in the name of equalization. Regulating power curves is a lot to undertake just to level the playing field imo.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by canaglia

I clearly see that on X axis there is engine speed, but what does mean N/Nmax as dimensionsless fraction, or maybe you mean friction? can't understand the correlation

In the table it shows that 500kW occurs at 95% (fractions are dimensionless) of the maximum engine speed. The power then drops off after and is only 495kW.

Interesting that later on that page it says they will correct the curve for conditions! So if we are, say, at altitude there will be no loss of power and and turbo v. normally aspirated differences won’t show.

Must have a decent look at this doc at some point.

[canaglia]

Thank you... to be honest, % of rpm range was what I thought at first but then I saw N/Nmax and thought was something related to % of torque release.
Hope ACO and FIA will keep on showing onboard telemetry to see how high lmh engines rev. ICE TS050 was revving up to about 8000rpm according to that

[hondafan37]

Porsche Targeting End-of-Year Rollout for LMDh Car

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...-for-lmdh-car/

[canaglia]

have IMSA and ACO decided who will be the spec kers supplier?

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by canaglia

have IMSA and ACO decided who will be the spec kers supplier?

Williams, Bosch and Xtrac

https://www.racetechmag.com/2020/09/...lmdh-contract/

[S griffin]

Williams could do quite well in Sportscars if they gave it a go to be fair. I just hope the KERS system that Bosch and Xtrac develop with them is up to standard, it will be tough job doing it for everyone

[Adam43]

Why will it be tough? and why do you express a concern that it might not be up to standard?

Seems a good choice as they got experience.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Why will it be tough? and why do you express a concern that it might not be up to standard?

Seems a good choice as they got experience.

Yeah, the guys who build such things for a living would not be able to meet the demand for what 15 cars?? I'm thinking that isn't even a challenge to meet demand

[Adam43]

Perhaps they could practice by supplying batteries to Formula E for a few years?

[S griffin]

Actually that’s not the worst idea ever. The question is whether Formula E would want them to

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Perhaps they could practice by supplying batteries to Formula E for a few years?

Is 4 years supplying 20 cars enough practice?
Maybe they need another go of it, with a newer generation of car?

[Simmi]

Sigh

[broadrun96]

Wow, there are a LOT of scorch marks in the hair from everyone getting buzzed with jokes right over their heads

[joeb]

Looks like Pagenaud may be up for one of Penske's Porsche seats:

https://racer.com/2021/06/30/penske-...22-and-beyond/

[hondafan37]

Porsche on pace for late 2021 LMDh rollout

https://racer.com/2021/06/26/porsche...WSqX5PRr2pT72A

"nearly 18 months before the first time we will go racing in Daytona"

I know it won't happen but it would be interesting if they could be in the WEC at the end of 2022

"rumors of eight total cars being made available for the debut season continue to make the rounds"

[Pandamasque]

Besides the availability of IMSA-spec hybrid system, there's a question of homologation. Do LMDh cars get "frozen" in their debut spec for 5 years like the LMH? This could be the big factor in Porsche's desire to test ad nauseum ignoring any 2022 WEC (even Le Mans) debut opportunities and get it 110% right before Daytona 2023.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Besides the availability of IMSA-spec hybrid system, there's a question of homologation. Do LMDh cars get "frozen" in their debut spec for 5 years like the LMH? This could be the big factor in Porsche's desire to test ad nauseum ignoring any 2022 WEC (even Le Mans) debut opportunities and get it 110% right before Daytona 2023.

I think that is a good assumption in the world of locked in homologations.

[Mike E]

Yes, 5 year homologation. Has to be same as LMH to make any sense.

[canaglia]

no surprise, back to about 10 years ago, porsche was already testing 919 on june 2013 to debut on april 2014, before final homologation I think a manufacturer could test his LMH/lmdh prototype even 24/7 for months