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Old 20 Apr 2021, 16:50 (Ref:4046913)   #3091
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Originally Posted by billy bleach View Post
Is RoKIT car white on black or black on white? The ultimate 10/10ths discussion!
Depends if you are looking at the front or the back.

https://twitter.com/BTCC/status/1372...250434/photo/3

From the rear, white is the more dominant colour.
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Old 20 Apr 2021, 17:03 (Ref:4046916)   #3092
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Originally Posted by Craner Curves View Post
As it stands, 13 black cars out of a field of 29. Poor Tim Harvey 😂
We'll have to get some proper commentators from snooker then... they can cope with lots of red balls, so should manage a handful of black cars!
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Old 20 Apr 2021, 17:07 (Ref:4046917)   #3093
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I don't see much wrong with the liveries on the Cupras. They did a good job IMHO. Hopefully they will get enough backing to keep developing it well enough. We'll see how good it is, especially compared to others, like the PMR Vauxhalls and the Speedworks Toyotas who are already ahead with their cars so far due to at least two years development

Anyway let's enjoying seeing the cars in their colours and look forward to a competitive season, with hopefully some surprises in store
I think the Cupras look pretty smart. Plus a blind git like me should be able to tell the difference between Nic and Goffy at full chat, they're different enough.
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Old 20 Apr 2021, 18:06 (Ref:4046925)   #3094
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Old 20 Apr 2021, 21:46 (Ref:4046972)   #3095
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
How long does a sponsor have to use a colour scheme before they are 'renowned'?

As far as I can tell, we have only seen 3 livery reveals that are predominantly black, and one that is 1/3 black?

Of those - they are all derived from the primary sponsor's colours:

AutoBrite - White/Red on Black
RoKIT - White on Black
So to be expected for HARD. to use black as the base for their cars.

Car Gods 54 - Black base, with different colours dependant on product.
So to be expected for Ciceley to use black as the base.

BMW Motorsport - Black base on their global programme.
So to be expected for WSR to use black as the base.

Toyota Gazoo - Red/White/Black.
So to be expected for Speedworks to use a Red/White/Black livery.

Do we expect teams to reject sponsor's requirements because they are the wrong colour? Why is Texaco's black a good livery, but 2021 sponsor's black a less desirable livery?
I'm not saying about teams rejecting requirements or just having colours long bla bla bla. You don't have to over-analyse everything and seek scientific arguments and reasons for everything.

It's just the fact, Texaco or JPS black livery is iconic whereas Car Gods or AutoBrite are not and will not be and this is the end of the topic for me.
Why throwing this pointless argument of teams rejecting sponsors requirements? No one suggested this and no one thinks about it.

It's just a bit surprising that there are so many black (or partly black, whatever really) liveries this year. This is going to be a bit bland, that's it. My argument about Monster Energy and all these comments about Texaco or JPS stem from the fact that these brands are so recognisable that black cars with their logos would look great always. Black cars with some less known or unknown logos just don't make such an impression and are not that recognisable. The end of the topic.
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Old 20 Apr 2021, 22:13 (Ref:4046974)   #3096
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Originally Posted by Matt K View Post
It's just a bit surprising that there are so many black (or partly black, whatever really) liveries this year. This is going to be a bit bland, that's it.
The comments about the grid being 'bland' seem to crop up every year - and usually are closely followed by someone referring to a historical (outdated) scheme as being a much better example of a livery.

To me there is nothing about the Texaco or JPS liveries that makes them any better (or worse) than an AutoBrite or Car Gods livery in nearly identical colours.

2020:
Quote:
Another white based livery. Looks ok, just really bland colours! [...]
I agree, it does look a bit bland
2018:
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There was a bit too much white last year -
Complaints about the lack of variety or colour in liveries is about as clockwork as a Volvo/Kia rumour.
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Old 20 Apr 2021, 22:42 (Ref:4046976)   #3097
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
The comments about the grid being 'bland' seem to crop up every year - and usually are closely followed by someone referring to a historical (outdated) scheme as being a much better example of a livery.

To me there is nothing about the Texaco or JPS liveries that makes them any better (or worse) than an AutoBrite or Car Gods livery in nearly identical colours.

2020:


2018:


Complaints about the lack of variety or colour in liveries is about as clockwork as a Volvo/Kia rumour.
Maybe but I'm speaking for myself here and don't think (although maybe I've got a memory like a sieve!) I complained about liveries in the past (I mean not about single liveries but them as a whole of the grid).

When it comes to Texaco or JPS being worse or better. Well, this is your opinion, as far as I'm concerned, there is a huge difference especially as the aforementioned ones really go together with the brands. Is black/white livery part of AutoBrite's identity? Or part of HUB's? I think neither of these. This is just a scheme created by Team HARD and I'm simply not a fan of it.

Well, so you say Kia or Volvo are joining? 😂😂
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Old 21 Apr 2021, 06:52 (Ref:4047005)   #3098
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Originally Posted by Matt K View Post
Maybe but I'm speaking for myself here and don't think (although maybe I've got a memory like a sieve!) I complained about liveries in the past (I mean not about single liveries but them as a whole of the grid).

When it comes to Texaco or JPS being worse or better. Well, this is your opinion, as far as I'm concerned, there is a huge difference especially as the aforementioned ones really go together with the brands. Is black/white livery part of AutoBrite's identity? Or part of HUB's? I think neither of these. This is just a scheme created by Team HARD and I'm simply not a fan of it.

Well, so you say Kia or Volvo are joining? 😂😂
Not wishing to fan any flames here (I am honestly not) but surely the JPS livery can be referred to as iconic because that was from 40/50 or so years ago, and we still remember it (although I personally preferred the more colourful red, white & gold Gold Leaf coloured Lotus). Maybe in a similar amount of time these new companies & their colour schemes could be regarded in the same way?
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Old 21 Apr 2021, 08:13 (Ref:4047012)   #3099
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Not wishing to fan any flames here (I am honestly not) but surely the JPS livery can be referred to as iconic because that was from 40/50 or so years ago, and we still remember it (although I personally preferred the more colourful red, white & gold Gold Leaf coloured Lotus). Maybe in a similar amount of time these new companies & their colour schemes could be regarded in the same way?
This is true, however, I don't think AutoBrite livery will ever get 'iconic.'
There are some modern-day liveries that I can imagine may become 'iconic' in the future - like Tom Coronel's DHL one in WTCC/R, Monster Energy in Supercars or maybe even Laser Tools Racing.
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Old 21 Apr 2021, 08:15 (Ref:4047013)   #3100
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I think some colours will always be iconic and the black and gold of the JPS really suited the cars at the time, so it worked well. Lotus usually came up with great liveries anyway. We'll see how well remembered these current liveries, but at the moment they look alright to me
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Old 21 Apr 2021, 09:25 (Ref:4047031)   #3101
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Don't liveries become iconic when the cars have success, as well when they look great? Hence why the JPS and Texaco liveries are considered as iconic.
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Old 21 Apr 2021, 09:52 (Ref:4047039)   #3102
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Don't liveries become iconic when the cars have success, as well when they look great? Hence why the JPS and Texaco liveries are considered as iconic.
I think this is exactly the case.

In isolation, the JPS livery is no better or worse than the Car Gods 54.
Likewise the Texaco is no better or worse than Rokit.

IMO - In order to become iconic, two things are needed. Firstly, it needs to be a 'clean' livery, with well defined elements and typically based around a single brand. Secondly, the car or driver needs to do something that sets apart from the field.

So when we look at the Texaco Sierra - you have a car that was competing around the world in the same livery, and so exposure leads to familiarity, which leads to iconic.

For the JPS livery, 15 years on an F1 car, as well as featuring on Touring Cars means that exposure levels are high.

And that is what it boils down to - the more exposure a livery receives, the more 'iconic' it will become over time. We are less likely to see a multi-year deal for the same livery to be represented in different motorsport disciplines, so we are less likely to see iconic liveries emerge today.

With regards to BTCC having a lot of black liveries, it's not really that many when you look across the whole grid, and some of the ones we have seen so far look pretty good (IMO). The promising feature so far is that all of these black liveries are a result of sponsorship, as opposed to team preference - which is a healthy position for the series to be in. There is still plenty of variety across the grid, and telling the cars apart will not be difficult - unless we genuinely think that people can't tell the difference between a black Cupra with white elements and black BMW with Red/Blue elements?.

Full grid - sponsors on cars - where's the problem?
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Old 21 Apr 2021, 10:24 (Ref:4047044)   #3103
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I think this is exactly the case.

In isolation, the JPS livery is no better or worse than the Car Gods 54.
Likewise the Texaco is no better or worse than Rokit.

IMO - In order to become iconic, two things are needed. Firstly, it needs to be a 'clean' livery, with well defined elements and typically based around a single brand. Secondly, the car or driver needs to do something that sets apart from the field.

So when we look at the Texaco Sierra - you have a car that was competing around the world in the same livery, and so exposure leads to familiarity, which leads to iconic.

For the JPS livery, 15 years on an F1 car, as well as featuring on Touring Cars means that exposure levels are high.

And that is what it boils down to - the more exposure a livery receives, the more 'iconic' it will become over time. We are less likely to see a multi-year deal for the same livery to be represented in different motorsport disciplines, so we are less likely to see iconic liveries emerge today.

With regards to BTCC having a lot of black liveries, it's not really that many when you look across the whole grid, and some of the ones we have seen so far look pretty good (IMO). The promising feature so far is that all of these black liveries are a result of sponsorship, as opposed to team preference - which is a healthy position for the series to be in. There is still plenty of variety across the grid, and telling the cars apart will not be difficult - unless we genuinely think that people can't tell the difference between a black Cupra with white elements and black BMW with Red/Blue elements?.

Full grid - sponsors on cars - where's the problem?
I've never liked liveries that look like the base has been chosen by the team and the sponsors have been added on. Racing cars look much better when the main sponsor dictates the colours.

I understand this isn't always possible, let's say if one sponsor can't pay enough and the team needs a few to get the right amount of funding, but the liveries unveiled for this season have so far centred around one sponsor with a defined colour scheme.
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Old 21 Apr 2021, 10:32 (Ref:4047046)   #3104
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
IMO - In order to become iconic, two things are needed. Firstly, it needs to be a 'clean' livery, with well defined elements and typically based around a single brand. Secondly, the car or driver needs to do something that sets apart from the field.

So when we look at the Texaco Sierra - you have a car that was competing around the world in the same livery, and so exposure leads to familiarity, which leads to iconic.

Full grid - sponsors on cars - where's the problem?
I agree and what you say shows exactly what the difference is between Texaco or JPS livery and AutoBrite or HUB livery. The first ones are clean, based around a single brand and are easily recognisable as a whole. The latter ones do not really reflect the brand, are not specific for the brand (because no matter if it's AutoBrite or HUB the scheme is the same) and are not 'clean' in the ways the former ones are.

This is not a problem, everyone is happy that the grid is full and sponsors are there. This is just a discussion about the grid becoming suddenly black. I also don't like negativity spreading when reasons to complain are constantly found but this discussion about liveries is not complaining about sponsors or whatever. If people can't express their opinions about different things (sometimes expressing dissatisfaction with something or simply stating they don't like this or that) then what is the point of the forum? It's no use writing that everything is fantastic and flawless because it isn't. Yes, people writing here are BTCC and/or motorsport fans so generally they enjoy it but it doesn't mean they can't be critical of some things.
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Old 21 Apr 2021, 10:42 (Ref:4047048)   #3105
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