Lotus Cortina

[drbob]

Seeking advice tenthers
Zeff and others, what was was the best/ fastest in period between race Mk 1 and Mk 2 Lotus Cortina and why
I am looking at a Mk 2 after having sold my Mk 1 .

[morninggents]

The Mk 1 was raced internationally between 1963 and 1966, inclusive, with 8 valve Lotus Twincam engine of 1600cc on carbs (maybe on injection in 1966). Homologated weight of the 1963 car was 751kg.


The Mk 2 was raced internationally only in 1967 and early 1968 before being superceded by the Ford Escort in June,1968. However, as the international saloon racing regs for 1967 were to Group 5, rather than Group 2,
this car ran a 1600cc FVA 16 valve F2 engine which produced much more power than the 8 valve twincam engine. I'm not sure of the homologated weight of the Mk 2 Cortina but I'm sure it would have been much heavier than the Mk 1's 751KG. The Mk 2 was slightly shorter than the MK 1 but wider, and I don't think it had the ally panels and transmission components that were homologated on the Mk 1. The racing successor to the Mk 1 was intended to be the Escort, not the Mk 2.


I would be fairly sure that a developed Mk 1 would have been quicker than a developed twincam powered Mk 2. The FVA powered Mk 2 was certainly quicker than a Mk 1 but I'm not sure if the FVA powered Mk 2 could be raced in historic racing today.

[Gerard C]

I seem to remember the difference in weight bewteen MK1 and 2 was circa 150kilos in favor of the first. Stand to be corrected of course.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by morninggents

The Mk 1 was raced internationally between 1963 and 1966, inclusive, with 8 valve Lotus Twincam engine of 1600cc on carbs (maybe on injection in 1966). Homologated weight of the 1963 car was 751kg.


The Mk 2 was raced internationally only in 1967 and early 1968 before being superceded by the Ford Escort in June,1968. However, as the international saloon racing regs for 1967 were to Group 5, rather than Group 2,
this car ran a 1600cc FVA 16 valve F2 engine which produced much more power than the 8 valve twincam engine. I'm not sure of the homologated weight of the Mk 2 Cortina but I'm sure it would have been much heavier than the Mk 1's 751KG. The Mk 2 was slightly shorter than the MK 1 but wider, and I don't think it had the ally panels and transmission components that were homologated on the Mk 1. The racing successor to the Mk 1 was intended to be the Escort, not the Mk 2.


I would be fairly sure that a developed Mk 1 would have been quicker than a developed twincam powered Mk 2. The FVA powered Mk 2 was certainly quicker than a Mk 1 but I'm not sure if the FVA powered Mk 2 could be raced in historic racing today.

The homologated weight for the Mk 2 was 820Kg , but that was in Gp 2 , so could be lighter for Gp 5

[drbob]

Thanks for the information. I will drop the thought about the Mark 2 Lotus Cortina.

Our historic touring car regulations for our Group N has two relevant classes , Group Nb, up to end 1964 and Group Nc, up to end 1972. Basically specs are Group1 with some modifications ( production touring car ).

Although it would be in the later Nc class how do you think a twin cam Escort would fare against the Mk 1 LC if specs for both are Group 1 type.

[morninggents]

You would need to look at the homologation forms for both cars. The papers for the Cortina are, I think, no.1224, but don't know about the Escort TC nor it's homologated minimum weight.


Having raced both the Cortina is more tail happy than the Escort owing to it's longer wheelbase and narrower stance. Which is quickest could depend on the Escort's weight and whether the engine spec allowed for the Escort could produce more power than that of the Cortina.

On balance, probably the Escort.

[E.B]

Hi drbob, this is not that detailed re Nc regs for the Escort Twincam, and im sure it is info you have already but I will post the link anyway.
It is just the CAMS / Motorsport Aus approved vehicle spec for the Nc Escort TC. (One thing it does confirm is the homologated dry weight is 825kg.) Lists a few basic can do's and cannot do mods. Nothing groundbreaking as I said.
https://www.motorsport.org.au/docs/d...rsn=8b3dadf3_2

FIA Homologation stuff from their 'Historic Database':
https://historicdb.fia.com/car/ford-escort-twin-cam
https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def...24_group_2.pdf

Edit: Just noticed the FIA stuff is Group 2.Sorry.

[Gerard C]

I dont think the Escort RS 1600 having been homologated in Grp 1. If you want to know for sure what model is competitive, look at the race reports of the last years. In doubt, find a period race report.
Cant imagine a balance Cortina vs Escort. Not only a Cortina is eligible in many events/series but will be competitive, overall and category. Not a real match.
If you fancy a big one, a Comet or Galaxie will fill your dreams. Thought from an advisor who wont pay!

[drbob]

Thanks E.B. The Motorsport Australia regs for the Mark 1 twin cam Escort state a dry weight of 825 kg so slightly less than the Mk 1 LC at 850 kg.

Gerard the Escort RS1600 is eligible for our pre 73 Nc class.

My problem is making a decision. Just ask delta about our pre 66 GT choice for racing in the UK/ Europe historic events.

[morninggents]

If the Escort RS1600 is eligible then it is no contest between that and the Lotus Cortina. The Escort has loads more power.

I'm amazed that the Lotus Cortina minimum weight for Aussie racing is 850KG when it's FIA homologated weight is 751kg in 1963 form and, I think, 812kg in 1965 form.

[drbob]

Morninggents, I think the FIA regs were/ are different to our historic regs which is basically take out the flooring, add roll cage and go racing. But of course with race seat, harness, alloy wheels etc etc. It is not a stripped out race car.

So the weights are much closer to the road car weights which I think for pre aeroflow Mk 1 LC was about 875 kg kerb weight and 934 kg for the aeroflow model.

The weight for the Escort RS1600 in our current historic regs is 790 kg.

[morninggents]

If the Escort RS1600 is eligible then it is no contest between that and the Lotus Cortina. The Escort has loads more power.

Sorry, duplicated post.

[Tel 911S]

It does get confusing , as ,[ from memory ], non of the Lotus Cortina,s or Escort Twin Cam/ RS had Group 1 homologation due to production numbers .

But some Historic regs do not go by homologation and allow a recognised specification , especially for pre 1970 classes .

So you have to study your own regs & read up on what is successful in the classes you want to enter .

[GORDON STREETER]

It's a pity that we didn't know what was going to happen with cars such as the RS 1600 in later years. A friend of mine bought a gold coloured one brand new and used it for about a year thrashing it through the country roads in our area, he put it through a hedge one night and we went to recover it the next day minus it's wheels/battery/carburettors ! He had it sitting in his garage for a while and eventually flogged it for £300 !!!. I don't remember the reg number and I wonder if it has survived .

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by drbob

My problem is making a decision. Just ask delta about our pre 66 GT choice for racing in the UK/ Europe historic events.

He will know for sure.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

It's a pity that we didn't know what was going to happen with cars such as the RS 1600 in later years. A friend of mine bought a gold coloured one brand new and used it for about a year thrashing it through the country roads in our area, he put it through a hedge one night and we went to recover it the next day minus it's wheels/battery/carburettors ! He had it sitting in his garage for a while and eventually flogged it for £300 !!!. I don't remember the reg number and I wonder if it has survived .

Like I stuffed a Mk1 Aeroflow Lotus Cortina (66 model) through a stone wall on Anglesey.......dragged it home and broke it because it was just an old Ford.....all I have left is the Lotus badges off the rear quarters......

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Like I stuffed a Mk1 Aeroflow Lotus Cortina (66 model) through a stone wall on Anglesey.......dragged it home and broke it because it was just an old Ford.....all I have left is the Lotus badges off the rear quarters......

That's a blow. if you still had the chassis plate you could 'rebuild' the whole car with other parts and panels!

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Like I stuffed a Mk1 Aeroflow Lotus Cortina (66 model) through a stone wall on Anglesey.......dragged it home and broke it because it was just an old Ford.....all I have left is the Lotus badges off the rear quarters......

I have mentioned this before but it still "irks" me to this day ! One of my customers had an imaculate Lotus Cortina that he use to cherish, anyway it got nicked and stuffed in a hedge but was recovered needing a front wing and door. I don't know why but he never claimed it on his insurance and kept it in his lockup and never drove it again, although it was still a driver.
About a year later he came in the garage and asked if I wanted to buy it as he wanted it out of the way, I had loads of cars kicking about and said "I haven't the room and don't want it he said" will you give me a hundred quid for it" this was early 70s and I thought for that money I could stick a wing and a door on it and flog it. Anyway it got stuck out the back and George Polley rung me up and asked if I wanted to flog the engine as he wanted one for an Escort that he was going to rally the next week. I flogged it to him and scrapped the rest of the car, as Lancsbreaker said "it was an old Ford"

[Lancsbreaker]

Amen, Brother

[Gerard C]

You mean that your answer to dr's question "Why I am looking at a Mk 2 after having sold my Mk 1" is: you did'nt want to see it in the scrapyard?
I've no regret having seen some of mines go far away, because I really needed the money to buy an other one or go on racing. First to come in my mind are a 2.5 ST and a 2.7 RS leicht. C'est la vie!

[drbob]

Well Gerard a 1969-71 2.2 Porsche 911S is also eligible for our historic touring car category because it raced in that category in period.
Maybe I should think about the Porsche. I wonder how that would fare against the V8’s.

[Gerard C]

I think its hard to compete against some well prepared Yank tank, "there's no substitute to displacement" as they say.
From memory, the 2.2 and 2.4 share the same homologation form, the second being an evolution of the first, right? From experience, same place, same driver same tyres, a Cortina is faster and much more enjoyable than a 2.0 running under GTS rules.
I dont know if its in CAMS book but the last batch of 2.0 S produced was LWB and injection.

[Gerard C]

May be, I say may be, to help you in your choice you can have a look to St Mary's Trophy entry/ classification lists. No GT in this category unfortunately. A Porsche is often a good choice and the market is very active. Parts of any kind available, good recipes are well known to cook a reliable rocket! No need to spot a 2.4 S "trappe Ã* huile"…

[drbob]

On another note irrespective of your view of today’s racing perhaps we are living in the last great age of motor racing.
Hybrids and electrics will not have the same allure.
So get into it and savour the moment while you can.

[zefarelly]

Someone in Aus was on acid when they came up with their weights . . . . some of your race weights are higher than the production car weights.

MK1 GT 756kg road(GP1) 728kg race (GP2)

MK2 LC 820

mk1 escort RS 790kg



escort has the benefit of better suspension geometry and rack and pinion steering.