What defines a Club Championship??

[Walshy]

I'm in inquisitive mood tonight lads.

Is it the fact that it is just regular guys doing a hobby that they all enjoy?

Is it the fact that we don't tour the country?

If it was defined by budget, I would have to say we are going away from Club, to more Professional.

No beef, just wondering.

Up to the mid 90's, about 90% of the cars were run by individuals. Although fiercely competitive, it still had the amateur feel to it. Today, the Championship is a world apart from back then. Not to it's detriment at all, but can it still be classed as a Clubmans Championship and should it be dealt with in a different way?

We have all heard of £20,000+ budgets, new tyres for every meeting, several engine builds per season, the best money can buy. If you look around the grid, the number of team run cars far outway the number of private entered cars now. The expensive set-up equipment in the garages, the queueing for the Assembly area (I know this is being addressed). This is a professional series now. Should it not be dealt with in that manner by the BRSCC?

As I previously said, not all changes are for the worse, but is there still a place for the individual clubbie who just wants to have a bit of fun and get the occasional top 6 finish?????

I have only raised this as a few of us were talking about how it has changed so much.

[diz]

And you've just moved from Rookie to Racer in the process.

[Walshy]

Never noticed that. A landmark. Judging by your postings, I will have to be posting everynight for eternity to move up again........

[swift]

Wow, you are on top form tonight Chris.

The thorny topic of budgets and how much people spend on their racing. Does someone who spends £20k enjoy it as much as someone who spends only £5k? I really don't know.I think you would probably have to ask them that. I think there have always been the "haves" and the "have nots" in any club motorsport, perhaps it's more prevalent now?

Perhaps it makes the victory all the sweeter for the "real" club racer to beat the "professional" teams?

Look at last year, it can be done : look at what Goughy and Stevie Roberts achieved: I'm not degrading their efforts as being not "professional" but a "family" concern helping their offspring doing what they love to do. No big tranporters no fancy awnings, back to basics.

I think we have to face facts: to win you have to spend a certain amount of money to acieve this, whether it's on tyres, testing or engine rebuilds. I don't think there's anything you can do to stop this.

I remember dad quitting Atlantic because it was costing way too much money and it was becoming too serious to be fun anymore: he just stopped enjoying it. In 1973 his father spent £6000 on dad's racing: that's some budget 30 years ago.

[Walshy]

WOW.

That is some budget for then.

I agree with you Swifty. Is it just me though that thinks £20,000+ budgets for a regional championship with no prize fund is a bit ridiculous.
I can understand these guys that want to go career, but what weight does it carry, winning a regional championship with a budget that would keep half the grid going for 6 months?

I promise, I am not trying to upset anyone, but more just understand.

[kartingdad]

It all depends on how competitive you are and want to be.

If you have a truly competitive nature, then you will do everything to the best of your ability, whether at work or play. Then you have to factor in the rest of your life activities and prioritise them, so if you have 14 kids for instance, the resources are naturally spread a bit thinner.

If your top priority in life is winning a motor race at the top level you can achieve, then you do whatever you can to make sure it happens.

If you feel you have the aptitude to allow a win (for instance) to happen, rather than accepting 'I could never drive like that' then it becomes easier to justify.

Finally, you are nearly always going to find that money wins races, cos thats what is needed, otherwise you might as well put a 1300 engine in the back and say he's only winning cos he has a bigger engine.

[StephenRae]

Originally posted by swift


I remember dad quitting Atlantic because it was costing way too much money and it was becoming too serious to be fun anymore: he just stopped enjoying it. In 1973 his father spent £6000 on dad's racing: that's some budget 30 years ago. [/B]

I don't think I spend that much now!!!

[swift]

Originally posted by StephenRae
I don't think I spend that much now!!!

Interestingly enough (that's if you are interested of course). In this very same year (1973)have a guess what the prize money was for actually winning an Atlantic race?

No ideas?


Well, it was £105: a tidy sum. but still no where near covering the running costs of the car, even if you won all of them.

[bella]

club = having fun.
"serious" = wanting to make a career out of racing.

seems fairly simple to me.

[diz]

Originally posted by bella
club = having fun.
"serious" = wanting to make a career out of racing.

seems fairly simple to me.

bella, I agree with you, but take issue with the use of the word "serious" as the career step. Club drivers doing well are serious. Club drivers doing abysmally are also serious. In this sport, if you aren't serious, you can get hurt.
In this thread, we are veering back to the old Lewis Hamilton / Best National Racing Driver topic again.
Let's just leave it that Club is Club and good fun / sport. National is the Autosport version of Club.

[Walshy]

There's another can of worms. Autosport and Club racing........

[bella]

diz, i put "serious" in those inverted comma jobbys because i couldn't think of an appropriate word to replace it with.

[StephenRae]

Ah..Swift 'the good old days'.....In 1977 entries were £4 or £6 trade, they used to check the size of your decals, none of which were allowed without an advertising permit.
There was prize money, but I was at the wrong end of the grid.....no change there then!!!

[jackaroo]

I thought you could have fun and still compete seriously

[Walshy]

Some can. Some don't. It's all how you approach it. You must have seen the ones though. If they don't get Pole they sulk and if they don't win, you see them driving out of the gate fully loaded 10 minutes after getting out of the car. I can understand this to a point if your at the cutting edge of the sport where a win equals mega bucks, but this is club racing...........

[swift]

Originally posted by StephenRae
Ah..Swift 'the good old days'.....In 1977 entries were £4 or £6 trade, they used to check the size of your decals, none of which were allowed without an advertising permit.
There was prize money, but I was at the wrong end of the grid.....no change there then!!!

Another step back in time: dad can also remember hiring Oulton exclusively for 25 quid!

[swift]

Originally posted by Walshy
Some can. Some don't. It's all how you approach it. You must have seen the ones though. If they don't get Pole they sulk and if they don't win, you see them driving out of the gate fully loaded 10 minutes after getting out of the car. I can understand this to a point if your at the cutting edge of the sport where a win equals mega bucks, but this is club racing...........

Ah, Walshy I too have seen these people and I've seem them in our Cahmpionship at Oulton. I heard a phrase once which I think is quite appropriate to describe them: "There are those people who are so competitive, that hate losing more than they like winning"

What do you think?

[diz]

Originally posted by swift
Another step back in time: dad can also remember hiring Oulton exclusively for 25 quid!

David, You still can hire Oulton exclusively for 25 quid! but it would be per minute. I assume Ken got it for the day.

[swift]

Yes, you're absolutely correct it was for the full day. If you did ring the circuit and it already booked by someone you knew, it wasn't unknown to split the cost between 2 drivers. I mean, after all was said and done it was £25 we were talking about!

However, I believe you didn't marshals, first aid or recovery for your hire fee. I don't know, what were they thinking of in those days?

I've just noticed that earlier post now makes me a "racer": about time some might say

[diz]

Another 55 posts and I become a Veteran. It was two years ago that Autosport referred to me as "the veteran organiser". I was initially pi$$ed off with that, because it made me feel old, then I realised I was old, so I got used to it. But for heavens sake, Justin Dawkins a veteran at twenty years of age! He's still wet behind the ears

[blue nose]

Diz one of my dogs is sick what do you charge for a call out?

[Walshy]

That's spot on Swifty. In fact. You probably know who I mean, but one driver last year spat his dummy and went home on a test day. All because he couldn't match the times of the frontrunners. As quick as he was and he was quick, it wasn't enough. What happened to 'Lose the Battle, Win the War'....

Diz. I don't think you look too bad for one hundred and twenty three....LOL.....LOEL....

[StephenRae]

I remember Oulton being £6 for 2 hours exclusive use, probably with no safety backup, but there is precious little on test days now. Not all of the marshalls posts are manned.
I once spun harmlessly at Cascades and while spinning saw the red flag come out....another stoppage!!
Wouldn't it be more efficient to have one well equipped emergency vehicle circulating during testing, it would only be a minor inconvenience and would be 'on the scene' within minutes.