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Old 10 Sep 2009, 17:56 (Ref:2537944)   #26
kingkai
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I'm not that excited... They shouldn't have withdrawn the SLR-GT1 in the first place in 2004.. That would have been a lovely car against the 2 C5-R's/2 Prodrive 550's and later against the 2 C6-R's/DBR9's at Le Mans...
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Old 10 Sep 2009, 20:13 (Ref:2538027)   #27
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Which series is this car going to race in with its carbon fibre monocoque? Well, not GT1 or GT2, thats for sure.
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 08:05 (Ref:2538255)   #28
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Originally Posted by Splatz the Cow View Post
This P11 MP4-12C (isnt that a gun?) is meant to be McLaren's return to doing their own thing. It's really not that impressive.
You don't think a 3.8 V8 biturbo with 600 bhp and revving up to 8500 rpm is impressive?

BTW it is believed that the Ferrari Enzo successor will also have small turbocharged engine as well and that the focus will be low weight instead of more power.
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 16:23 (Ref:2538609)   #29
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Splatz the Cow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSplatz the Cow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wow a 3.8litre twin turbo producing 600 bhp - that technology is only what more than a decade old?

Obviously your one of those that only reads the power figures and top speed then?
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 16:29 (Ref:2538611)   #30
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Originally Posted by byronb View Post
@Splatz, no, Mclaren's goal is to beat anything in it's class, and that means it should beat the Audi R8, Ferrari F430, Lambo Gallardo, that kind of cars, you can't beat those these days without electronic stuff. No car these days comes without.
Just for my knowledge, do you have a reference or source for me to read that? I am keen to read the backround to this.

The reason is, I was relating the McLaren principles fleshed out in Driving Ambition, and in the print media they have contributed to talking about what is the focus of the company.

The principle you describe is almost exactly the VW one, of having the best car in every single class. Hence the 53,000 tonne Bugatti Veyron.
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 18:34 (Ref:2538697)   #31
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What's with Frank's gimmicky body styling, where the McLaren Formula1 Team logo is implied in the side air intakes? Obvious enough ya think?
In Frank's defence, he joined after the design was pretty much locked. He did get a chance to redesign the front and rear ends (look for the Leno video and the car magazine images of P11 and you'll see) but that was it.

Dissapointing car as I posted on Speedhunters.com yesterday, quite a discussion on it. People either say its too conservative or they don't like it...

....Gordon would never have allowed something so generic.
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 18:39 (Ref:2538700)   #32
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Sounds like a very good way to stuff it into the landscape for someone who isn't a trained racing driver
Yes, but now they'll stuff it into the scenery on the inside of the bend, which will make an interesting change.
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 18:41 (Ref:2538701)   #33
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The reason is, I was relating the McLaren principles fleshed out in Driving Ambition, and in the print media they have contributed to talking about what is the focus of the company.
Driving Ambition is about the F1 and McLaren Cars at the time. McLaren Automotive is quite a different beast. Gordon, his (very good) chief engineering Barry Lett and many others have departed, most to Gordon's own company. Not that many of the original crew are there from the F1 days.

+ this isn't a F1 replacement, its a different car for a different market....still bland though
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 22:18 (Ref:2538807)   #34
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Originally Posted by Splatz the Cow View Post
Wow a 3.8litre twin turbo producing 600 bhp - that technology is only what more than a decade old?
Mmm, please name another production turbocharged V8 revving to 8500 rpm.

As a comparison with similar sized turbocharged production engines:
  • Audi RS6 Plus: 4.2 liter, 480 hp @ 6400 rpm
  • BMW X5/6 M: 4.4 liter, 555 hp @ 6000 rpm
  • Nissan GT-R: 3.8 liter, 480 hp @ 6400 rpm
  • Porsche Panamera Turbo: 4.8 liter, 500 hp @ 6000 rpm
  • Porsche 911 GT2: 3.6 liter, 530 hp @ 6500 rpm
Hower, these engines don't rev above 7000 rpm.
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 22:48 (Ref:2538824)   #35
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Well maybe the 'variant' for the ACO 'racing championships' will be a Mclaren MP4/12C 3.4L N/A, P-1 coupe.





L.P.
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Old 11 Sep 2009, 23:30 (Ref:2538839)   #36
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It looks like Roary the race car to me or is it more lightning McQueen from Disney?
Incidentally, did you know Hornish Jr. is the narrator on Roary?
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 11:04 (Ref:2539517)   #37
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I thought it was Sir Stirling Moss, perhaps it's revoiced in the USA ...
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 12:00 (Ref:2539561)   #38
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Incidentally, did you know Hornish Jr. is the narrator on Roary?
duke is bob on, in the UK it is Stirling Moss.
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 13:52 (Ref:2539633)   #39
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Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
Which series is this car going to race in with its carbon fibre monocoque? Well, not GT1 or GT2, thats for sure.
GT2 cars are supposed to have production engines

The 430 road car engine is 4.3l, yet the race engine is 4.0l
The 911 road car engine is 3.8l, yet the race engine is 4.0l
The Vantage road car engine is 4.7l, yet the race engine is 4.5l

Exemptions are all part of the fun in GT cars, i'd be surprised if theres a car in recent years that is strictly legal I suspect they'll allow a racing version of the McLaren with a carbon fibre monococque, albeit with something to peg it back
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 14:42 (Ref:2539685)   #40
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Where's that 3.8 V8 from? There is (was?) a McLaren Engine division but I find it questionable that they would design an engine from scratch for the project without anyone ever knowing about it before. It was expected to have the normal Mercedes engine... and now it has a small turbo V8 good for 8500 rpm(certainly very low pressure)?
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 18:13 (Ref:2539849)   #41
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GT2 cars are supposed to have production engines

The 430 road car engine is 4.3l, yet the race engine is 4.0l
The 911 road car engine is 3.8l, yet the race engine is 4.0l
The Vantage road car engine is 4.7l, yet the race engine is 4.5l

Exemptions are all part of the fun in GT cars, i'd be surprised if theres a car in recent years that is strictly legal I suspect they'll allow a racing version of the McLaren with a carbon fibre monococque, albeit with something to peg it back
Engine capacity is something completely different to the fundamental design of the car. I can't see it being homolgated, myself.
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 19:34 (Ref:2539892)   #42
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Where's that 3.8 V8 from?
The engine is developed by Mercedes for McLaren. But the engine won't be used in a Mercedes.
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 18:00 (Ref:2540637)   #43
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Really? I thought the Mercedes stuff was finished now. If this is a purely customer engine from Mercedes than really its just even more disapppointing.

So McLaren have made a car that is just like all the others in this class, but they didn't even make the engine
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 18:27 (Ref:2540662)   #44
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Well if they haven't made the engine wouldn't that make it more along the lines of these McLaren principles? They're not reknowned as a n engine manufacturer.
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 19:38 (Ref:2540721)   #45
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The engine is a McLaren designed and build engine.
Merc had nothing to do with it.
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Old 16 Sep 2009, 16:02 (Ref:2542131)   #46
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The engine is a McLaren designed and build engine.
Merc had nothing to do with it.
Are you sure? I used this (Dutch) information:
http://autotelegraaf.nl/autonieuws/4...laren-mp4-12c/
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Mercedes-Benz levert de 3,8 liter V8-motor met dubbele turbo en 600 pk/600 Nm aan McLaren, dat de enige gebruiker van het blok is.
Couldn't it be possible that McLaren asked Mercedes to develop an engine for them that can only be used by McLaren. McLaren is not known as an engine builder and it could be that McLaren and Mercedes had some score to settle.
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Old 16 Sep 2009, 16:16 (Ref:2542145)   #47
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Are you sure? I used this (Dutch) information:
http://autotelegraaf.nl/autonieuws/4...laren-mp4-12c/


Couldn't it be possible that McLaren asked Mercedes to develop an engine for them that can only be used by McLaren. McLaren is not known as an engine builder and it could be that McLaren and Mercedes had some score to settle.
Bespoke? Also it seems that all is still somewhat lovey dovey between the two. Here Something seems to be keeping them in a working relationship.






L.P.
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Old 16 Sep 2009, 17:58 (Ref:2542241)   #48
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Bespoke? Also it seems that all is still somewhat lovey dovey between the two. Here Something seems to be keeping them in a working relationship.






L.P.
The reason of their unstable relationship at this moment indeed seems to come from the roadcar division. It seemed like a good idea to work together in F1 (McLaren chassis and Mercedes engine) and expand this to roadcars (SLR McLaren). But that car wasn't really a succes. They didn't build as much cars as they wanted and McLaren and Mercedes had very different ideas about what kind of car it should be.

The result was that Gordon Murray left McLaren. The SLR was the result of two completely different ideas.

And now Mercedes has launched their completely new developed SLS AMG "Gullwing" and McLaren will present their MP4-12C.

So it is not really a surprise that they also want to split their F1 activities. Especially when you keep in mind the McLaren spy chandal from a few years ago...
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Old 16 Sep 2009, 21:23 (Ref:2542419)   #49
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Are you sure? I used this (Dutch) information:
http://autotelegraaf.nl/autonieuws/4...laren-mp4-12c/


Couldn't it be possible that McLaren asked Mercedes to develop an engine for them that can only be used by McLaren. McLaren is not known as an engine builder and it could be that McLaren and Mercedes had some score to settle.
I'm very sure that it's a 100% McLaren engine, and not a Mercedes build.
For Merc there is no interest to manufacture and design such a low volume engine which they can't use in their own models. Such a engine requires a completely different approach in design and manufacture. If Merc would do it the costs will explode.

Also you reference "de Telegraaf" has been known to produce information out of thin air.
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Old 16 Sep 2009, 21:47 (Ref:2542438)   #50
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The engine of the car is a McLaren branded engine developed by Cosworth;

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=156967
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