Official Italian Grand Prix 2018: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Page 7

wolfhound · 2 Sep 2018, 22:39 (Ref:3847745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Verstappen's penalty was bullshit. Ricciardo drove straight into Gasly with another stupid divebomb and got nothing, same for Perez who just slammed into Magnussen who ended up with damage. F1 seems to think whenever an attack is being launched the defending driver should move over to avoid contact. It's ludicrous.

It looked more like Verstappen moved over to make contact.

**Aysedasi** · 2 Sep 2018, 22:44 (Ref:3847746)

That's how I saw it.

EffectiveSprinkles · 2 Sep 2018, 22:48 (Ref:3847747)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

It looked more like Verstappen moved over to make contact.

He's allowed to move over. There was a car's width space. The contact was just a racing deal. Just like Hamilton and Vettel, Hamilton left a car's space but there was still contact. Nobody is to blame.

In this case you must also think Ricciardo and Perez should have been penalized, right?

TrapezeArtist · 2 Sep 2018, 23:01 (Ref:3847750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

He's allowed to move over. There was a car's width space. The contact was just a racing deal. Just like Hamilton and Vettel, Hamilton left a car's space but there was still contact. Nobody is to blame.

In this case you must also think Ricciardo and Perez should have been penalized, right?

No, he's not allowed to move over in the braking zone. And there wasn't a car's width left for Bottas. And he did it again a lap or two after hitting Bottas.

Ricardo's move was pretty wild. Those banzai outbraking manoeuvres can't work every time. I'm not sure if he should have been penalised, because there is a balance required between slapping down the obviously dangerous or unsporting moves but not making penalties for everything. I haven't seen enough of the Perez incident to have any opinion.

ascarracinguk · 2 Sep 2018, 23:03 (Ref:3847752)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

He's allowed to move over. There was a car's width space. The contact was just a racing deal. Just like Hamilton and Vettel, Hamilton left a car's space but there was still contact. Nobody is to blame.

In this case you must also think Ricciardo and Perez should have been penalized, right?

Bottas was already on the white line, If max had left a cars width there wouldn’t have been any contact...simple, he didn’t, there was contact and he was penalised. Not sure why it’s so hard for you to grasp

ascarracinguk · 2 Sep 2018, 23:05 (Ref:3847753)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

In this case you must also think Ricciardo and Perez should have been penalized, right?

Entirely different scenarios mid corner with no driver coming off worse. Bottas was forced off track and down the escape road.

EffectiveSprinkles · 2 Sep 2018, 23:09 (Ref:3847757)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

No, he's not allowed to move over in the braking zone.

Yes he is. Why do people consistently get this wrong? You're allowed one defensive move and then move back to the racing line, allowing for racing room. The stewards blame Max for the contact subsequently. Which in my opinion is stupid.

ascarracinguk · 2 Sep 2018, 23:13 (Ref:3847758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Yes he is. Why do people consistently get this wrong? You're allowed one defensive move and then move back to the racing line, allowing for racing room.

But he didn’t leave racing room. If he did then there wouldn’t have been contact....why do you consistently ignore this fact?

Skam85 · 2 Sep 2018, 23:28 (Ref:3847760)

But the big question is, how does Verstappen's move expose Vettel as an overrated fraud and all this being Ferrari's fault?

Kempi · 3 Sep 2018, 06:57 (Ref:3847817)

On the danger of sounding like F1Guy but Ferrari and Vettel are really shooting themselves in the foot. This was the fourth major mistake by Vettel this season all not being helped by Ferrari making wrong strategy decisions. Vettel should have been ahead the amount of points Hamilton is who is driving a brilliant season.

jimclark · 3 Sep 2018, 07:45 (Ref:3847822)

Absolutely. That's the way I see it.
I have no axe to grind; "my driver" left us in '68, and "my team" died along with Colin in '82.

S griffin · 3 Sep 2018, 08:11 (Ref:3847830)

Vettel/Hamilton was a racing incident. Maybe Vettel should have backed out, but I don't think he did much wrong, other than once again throwing away big points in the championship.

**Adam43** · 3 Sep 2018, 08:32 (Ref:3847833)

Vettel was beat in the corner and shouldn’t have risked so much. He should have backed himself to get him back as he probably would have had the superior race pace.

Kempi · 3 Sep 2018, 08:32 (Ref:3847834)

Driving wise there was not much wrong, that is true. But as a championship contender he needs to think differently. He lost major points due to such mental mistakes in Baku, France, Austria (team induced in qualifying) and now Monza. This alone is ~30 points. Count in Germany and he is ahead by 30.

Austria, Germany and Monza were all assisted by the team: In Austria they did not tell him Sainz was coming. In Germany they did not order Raikkönen to move (as Mercedes would have) so that Vettel was held up and came under pressure from Hamilton and Monza they shot themselves by giving Raikkönen the better quali lap with Vettel's tow and then not discussing start strategy, obviously.

**chunterer** · 3 Sep 2018, 09:31 (Ref:3847843)

I don't get how a driver of Vettel's position keeps making serious errors of judgement?

It's pretty clear a Ferrari driver should be ahead in the drivers points.

Not wishing to bang an old drum but a certain driver retiring from F1 would be at least as quick but without the mistakes....

Heck based on Kimi's form he might even be closer to Ham if he was given equal oportunity to Seb.

S griffin · 3 Sep 2018, 09:33 (Ref:3847845)

Vettel like Schumacher seems to trip himself up more than perhaps he should

Skam85 · 3 Sep 2018, 10:34 (Ref:3847856)

I did chuckle at this

**Adam43** · 3 Sep 2018, 10:35 (Ref:3847858)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Vettel like Schumacher seems to trip himself up more than perhaps he should

It ls rare anyone brings up Ralf in discussion nowadays.

F1Guy · 3 Sep 2018, 10:45 (Ref:3847859)

Well what can I say... it's pretty obvious Vettel just crumbles under pressure, and once again, proves why he is the most overrated driver in F1. Ever. Just like last year, he may well fail to capitalise on having the best car. Proves that having the best car doesn't always win you championships.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Any news on Vettels unsafe release?

Vettel was released into the path of Ericsson after his first stop. Ericsson had to brake hard, locked up, and the Ericsson onboard footage shows Ericsson swerved to avoid contact.

It was a slam dunk unsafe release. Anyone else would have had a penalty applied for that. But I guess Mr Todt hanging around in the Ferrari garage more than he does in the other garages does have it's benefits. Shame that the rules do not apply equally for everyone.

Maybe Whiting and the stewards were worried about leaving the track in one piece and decided not to investigate. Can you imagine the uproar if Vettel got penalised for an unsafe release just minutes after he spun out himself while trying to take Hamilton out of the GP?? At Ferrari's home GP??

ascarracinguk · 3 Sep 2018, 10:57 (Ref:3847863)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Well what can I say... it's pretty obvious Vettel just crumbles under pressure, and once again, proves why he is the most overrated driver in F1. Ever. Just like last year, he may well fail to capitalise on having the best car. Proves that having the best car doesn't always win you championships.

Vettel was released into the path of Ericsson after his first stop. Ericsson had to brake hard, locked up, and the Ericsson onboard footage shows Ericsson swerved to avoid contact.

It was a slam dunk unsafe release. Anyone else would have had a penalty applied for that. But I guess Mr Todt hanging around in the Ferrari garage more than he does in the other garages does have it's benefits. Shame that the rules do not apply equally for everyone.

Maybe Whiting and the stewards were worried about leaving the track in one piece and decided not to investigate. Can you imagine the uproar if Vettel got penalised for an unsafe release just minutes after he spun out himself while trying to take Hamilton out of the GP?? At Ferrari's home GP??

from what ive read the marshals/ stewards didn't report it at the time and the fia couldn't act until the team that was impeded protested.

I some how doubt Sauber was going to protest Ferrari at their home race.....

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Sep 2018, 10:59 (Ref:3847864)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I don't get how a driver of Vettel's position keeps making serious errors of judgement?

It's pretty clear a Ferrari driver should be ahead in the drivers points.

Not wishing to bang an old drum but a certain driver retiring from F1 would be at least as quick but without the mistakes....

Heck based on Kimi's form he might even be closer to Ham if he was given equal oportunity to Seb.

Interesting that you mention a certain driver retiring from F1 because in the 2012 season, after the Italian GP, Alonso was leading the WDC, with Hamilton 2nd and Vettel 4th and he had a 39 point lead over Vettel also with 7 races to go, though there were only 20 rounds in 2012.

If Vettel knuckles down and drives like he did at Spa, he could win it this year.

Skam85 · 3 Sep 2018, 11:16 (Ref:3847868)

I still think Vettel will take the title. It’s shaping up as an all time season. Just hope it doesn’t fizzle out like last year.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Sep 2018, 11:27 (Ref:3847869)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam85

I still think Vettel will take the title. It’s shaping up as an all time season. Just hope it doesn’t fizzle out like last year.

Why do you think he will take it?

Skam85 · 3 Sep 2018, 11:53 (Ref:3847876)

He has the fastest car. 30pts is a big gap, but it only takes one DNF from Lewis and the gap is cut again (probably). Ferrari’s advantage, despite not being huge, means it is likely that Mercedes won’t outsmart them in every remaining race.

F1Guy · 3 Sep 2018, 11:56 (Ref:3847880)

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