2019 TCR UK rumours and discussion

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by redshoes

You are probably right, although initially wasn't expecting many BTCC cars either, but I'm talking specifically about TCR spec cars. I've seen many time, some within this thread, that TCT is a work of genius and will kill off TCR UK.

I guess maybe I need to widen the question. There are people with TCR cars running them in Britcar or club saloons. If TCR UK is a lot of money for little exposure then how does running in a club event with even less exposure work?

Britcar race is 4 hours. You can split the cost between three drivers who will all think they've had plenty of track time.

TCR race is 18 minutes.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Yes, I understand that, but that doesn't answer the question. Why is it lower cost when you are running the exact same car? What specifically makes half an hour of track time in TCR UK more expensive that half an hour in TCT?

Entry fees (championship & each round), restrictions on tyres, fuel, etc, differences in media/TV coverage, prize funds, hospitality, licensing costs (for use of TCR name for example), not being headline series at the race meeting.

All of those items add up to make the difference from a 50-100k a year budget, to 200k+

[bella]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

many reasons. just one is the registration fee for TCT is £1,000
but for TCRUK it was £16,990

£17k?!? that’s absolutely mental, did they align it with btcc or something?

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by bella

£17k?!? that’s absolutely mental, did they align it with btcc or something?

if they did then they miscalculated badly.
its about the same price as btcc, except tcruk had less half the amount of races. so its actually nearly double the price of btcc registration fee, per race!
not to mention no crowds, no major tv etc etc

its completely idiotic

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by bella

£17k?!? that’s absolutely mental, did they align it with btcc or something?

In BTCC it's near enough 20k per driver (I think there might be another fee on top of that for the team as well) but that covers all the entry fees as well as does the TCR fee.


I doubt the £1,000 registration fee for the TCT covers all the entry fees.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

In BTCC it's near enough 20k per driver (I think there might be another fee on top of that for the team as well) but that covers all the entry fees as well as does the TCR fee.

theres additioonal registration fee for a btcc team on top of that price per car

so btcc had 30 races for 20k = £666 per race
tcruk had only 14 races for 17k = £1,214 per race. so nearly double btcc cost.

absolutley crazy for what was meant to be an affordable series

[VIVA GT]

I suppose this explains what it costs for 6 competitors to fund a low key TV deal!

[Alessio]

It's £600 to register for TCT including a rolling road dyno test, plus £1200 per race entry. Fuel is unrestricted Super Unleaded and tyres are supplied by a series partner. In TCR UK, it's £20,400 to enter the championship and £4,800 per race.

On top of that, it's £2.75 per litre for restricted race fuel and tyres must come from the Yokohama factory. So petrol comes cheaper in TCT, although the restriction of tyre purchases to a controlled supplier could be a way to bump tyre prices to reduce entry fees so that may balance things slightly.

For another comparison, TCR Italy costs £3000 for a season entry and £1000 per race with the same tyre regs and similar fuel expenses via Panta.

(All figures VAT inclusive)

[S griffin]

That's a reasonable sum to enter TCT, although the race entry is a bit high. Certainly the fuel supplies and tyre contract shows the teams will be looked after

I seriously don't know why they need to put the cost of enterting so high in TCR UK, for what is supposed to be a feeder series. I can understand the fuel costs, but what can teams do about the tyres? Do they have any say?

Certainly TCR Italy helps that it's the premier tin top series there, but I don't know how well that series is doing

[Alessio]

No idea, as I said I think there was a reason like parts and spares or something but I can't remember off the top of my head. They are also the headlining event for most of their rounds, so I guess TCR would have been one of the BRSCCs main incomes to pay for track hire and the additional costs which come with it.

TCR Italy seems to be doing alright, 2018 was a bit messy although there were some talented drivers amongst the carnage. There are about 10 cars confirmed for 2019 so far, 2 or 3 pretty much confirmed, and hopefully another 5 or 6 consistent entrants to add to them. They're fortunate to have the Gruppo Peroni Race series though which has a few TCR and ex-Leon Supercup spec cars amongst their touring car class, sporadically appearing in the main series.

[Alfisti]

To use a censor friendly selection of words: good golly, that seems frightfully expensive to drive around at a glorified track day and risk ones car being damaged by some other dreadful oafs.

Sounds like TCR UK have stolen Mr Bernie Ecclestones pricing strategy. They deserve to crash and burn.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

many reasons. just one is the registration fee for TCT is £1,000
but for TCRUK it was £16,990

Originally Posted by antnee

Entry fees (championship & each round), restrictions on tyres, fuel, etc, differences in media/TV coverage, prize funds, hospitality, licensing costs (for use of TCR name for example), not being headline series at the race meeting.

Thank you all. That pretty much confirmed what I had suspected, although I'm staggered by some of the numbers being quoted.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Alessio

It's £600 to register for TCT including a rolling road dyno test, plus £1200 per race entry. Fuel is unrestricted Super Unleaded and tyres are supplied by a series partner. In TCR UK, it's £20,400 to enter the championship and £4,800 per race.

On top of that, it's £2.75 per litre for restricted race fuel and tyres must come from the Yokohama factory. So petrol comes cheaper in TCT, although the restriction of tyre purchases to a controlled supplier could be a way to bump tyre prices to reduce entry fees so that may balance things slightly.

For another comparison, TCR Italy costs £3000 for a season entry and £1000 per race with the same tyre regs and similar fuel expenses via Panta.

(All figures VAT inclusive)

tct sounds sensible - they're encouraging full season entries by having a high one-off entry fee, keeping fuel rules simple reduces another cost and the tyre deal sounds interesting.

regarding tyre costs, i think series generally make their money by selling the right to exclusively supply rather than an amount per tyre.

i can't get over the lack of logic and knowledge of the market whoever has exhibited by setting the tcr prices so high. they forget that the most important thing is to have cars on the grid, if they can't get cars out then they don't have a series to promote or have a fancy hospitality unit for.

[Sodemo]

Indeed. Logically, you would perhaps expect to make a loss or break even in the first year, however the way TCR UK has set itself up is to put all the costs on the competitor and inflated ones at that.

[jsmee]

Anyway, back on topic to 2019 season chat....

Possible new entrant for 2019: Fox Motorsport (GT team) with a Civic for Nick Halstead. Championships to be confirmed but shared by TCR UK and with TCR UK window banner.

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[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by jsmee

Anyway, back on topic to 2019 season chat....

Possible new entrant for 2019: Fox Motorsport (GT team) with a Civic for Nick Halstead. Championships to be confirmed but shared by TCR UK and with TCR UK window banner.

fantastic that makes three entries

[jsmee]

Patience!!!!!!!

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[Petoli]

So we have 2 confirmed entries at the moment Darelle Wilson and Lewis Kent

But what about actual rumours of potential entrants

Nick Halstead - no official conformation but a brands new livered car with TCR UK decals seems like a certainty really

SWR - Looking at running 2 Civics in 2019

Teamwork Motorsport - Planning to run TCR UK alongside TCR Asia and the TCR500 at Spa

Zest Racecar Engineering - Looking to enter their DSG Leon

Supposedly Westcoast racing have a free entry for this year. Maybe they could run alongside their TCR Europe Campaign.

Excler8 Motorsport have recently taken delivery of a Honda Civic

Team Dynamics have a Audi RS3. said they were looking at potential TCR Series.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Petoli

So we have 2 confirmed entries at the moment Darelle Wilson and Lewis Kent

But what about actual rumours of potential entrants

Nick Halstead - no official conformation but a brands new livered car with TCR UK decals seems like a certainty really

SWR - Looking at running 2 Civics in 2019

Teamwork Motorsport - Planning to run TCR UK alongside TCR Asia and the TCR500 at Spa

Zest Racecar Engineering - Looking to enter their DSG Leon

Supposedly Westcoast racing have a free entry for this year. Maybe they could run alongside their TCR Europe Campaign.

Excler8 Motorsport have recently taken delivery of a Honda Civic

Team Dynamics have a Audi RS3. said they were looking at potential TCR Series.

so at the very very best, if every one in your wish list/potential entrants come true (and there is no way they all will because for example excelr8 are doing europe not uk ) that’s a grand total of just ten cars. which is less than last year. what a great achievement that would be in their second season!

[Alessio]

SWR, Zest and Excelr8 were offering drives last year in TCR UK too but without a bite, and I doubt there'll be a driver willing to front the fees for a drive in the UK with WCR when they could do Europe, Germany or Sweden alternatively likewise for Teamwork. Team Dynamics will be running in TCT.

[medius]

The Dynamics Audi is built around enduro racing not sprints so don't expect to see them in TCRUK

[Umai Naa]

Isn't the TD Audi James Kaye's car?

In which case, it pretty much just the Creventic series.

[medius]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Isn't the TD Audi James Kaye's car?

In which case, it pretty much just the Creventic series.

"Indeed it was entered into the Dubai 24hrs as Team Dynamics with WRC Develpments"

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

fantastic that makes three entries

As with many of these highly touted, under-supported championships (Ford Focus, anyone? Chevrons?) I have no problem with them being introduced as a class within something else and then setting off on their own when they have sufficient numbers.

I get very irritated when they rock up with almost no-one and poor racing to boot and expect the a couple of hundred marshals to give up their time freely in support of their business idea. If you can't get a field, can it or merge it.

[Moneyseeker]

To me it looks like TCR organisers thought - there are a lot of cars out there eligible to race, so let's start a UK series, without scoping the acutal need for it.


Anyone who follows the motorsport industy can see that the only growth area with big grids is historic racing or GT's which is largely funded by the same demographic of owner/driver. If you've made your millions and fancy racing yo will either buy a Porsche/Lambo/Ferrari/McLaren and want to drive that and whilst you are about it have the opportunity to do some 24hr racing and be able to thrash round some European circuits. Or of course, you may decide to BTCC as a gentleman driver, you are not going to do TCR (in my view)



If you are still a 'career' driver and you don't want to go single seater, you will do Clio's and then try and move to BTCC.


Yes, the TCR car is probably a good investent for the right team as you can run it in a wide range of series and have a good market to sell the car into.


To me, TCRUK is rushing to fill a gap that isn't there and in a challenging market.


TCT I can see the point of as it is more or less a re-incarnation of Formula Saloons that was the home for ex super touring/thunder saloon types that had no where else to race.