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5 Aug 2003, 10:17 (Ref:680336)
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#26 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,598
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Check this quote from Frank, in a feature about williams team orders on F1Live:
"The stewards decided Ralf had not paid due attention to the cars on his left and we fully respect the authority of the FIA, and acknowledge their responsibility to protect the safety of those involved in the sport. However, we are using the appeal process provided for by the FIA to clarify all of the circumstances surrounding the incident, and the suitability of the penalty imposed." Not quite fighting his corner as vigorously as you might expect... |
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5 Aug 2003, 10:42 (Ref:680352)
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#27 | ||
 Weasel WranglerVeteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,885
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Possibly. But it's also a sensible attempt to find common ground - "Ok, Ralf accepts that he was maybe less aware than he should have been, and we fully respect the stewards' position in terms of safety, but isn't the penalty rather harsh?"
Head knows they can't claim total innocence, so they're concentrating on trying to reduce the penalty. Back to topic - will/should Williams apply team orders? Under a completely misleading headline (no change there then  ), this is on BBC Online...http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/3124303.stm |
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5 Aug 2003, 10:46 (Ref:680355)
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#28 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,598
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No - Head was much more emphatic:
"I do not consider that Ralf caused an avoidable collision," said Head. This is on topic - in this climate they have to find stealthy ways to effect team orders. |
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5 Aug 2003, 11:13 (Ref:680382)
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#29 | ||
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Weasel Wrangler Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,885
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Sorry, misread your quote - thought that was Head, not Frank!
 Ok, it's kind of on topic. Though I'm not sure how Williams intend to effect team orders will have any bearing on their approach to Ralf's appeal. Head's quote on BBC Online seems plain enough to me - their strategy has not changed. Both drivers are told to go out there and race without taking each other off. Only when one driver is mathematically out of the WDC will he be asked to "assist" the other. And even after Germany, we still can't be sure which one it will be. If they're both in with a shout in the last race, the same will apply - Williams will give them both the best possible chance of winning it, until such a point in the race that only one of them can. |
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"Never pick a fight with an ugly person, they've got nothing to lose."
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5 Aug 2003, 12:42 (Ref:680451)
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#30 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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That's exactly Williams style ! I don't believe they will change this, if they did not in the past.
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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5 Aug 2003, 13:04 (Ref:680465)
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#31 | |||
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Quote:
Teams and drivers have a tradition of losing appeals of this nature, softly, softly is the best approach. The penalty could be made worse. they wouldn't want ralf to end up with a race ban (although i think this unlikely). Last edited by Adam43; 5 Aug 2003 at 13:06. |
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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5 Aug 2003, 13:06 (Ref:680467)
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#32 | |||
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Quote:
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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5 Aug 2003, 13:11 (Ref:680473)
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#33 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 356
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A while ago, wasn't Patrese asked to wave 'our Nige' through, and didn't he get a little upset about it .......
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5 Aug 2003, 13:25 (Ref:680488)
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#34 | ||
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Weasel Wrangler Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,885
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Seem to remember Ricardo got upset about all sorts of things...
 But it's plain that Williams (or McLaren, or even Ferrari) are going to have to be a little more 'stealthy', as Glen put it. Which means... well... all sorts of things, depending how you interpret the FIA's ruling. Which is precisely why it's a poorly thought out rule. If, for example, Ralf is ahead of JPM halfway through a race, but for whatever reason (strategy, ability) is slower than JPM, is it ok for Ralf to let JPM through so he can go on to possibly win the race and the championship?! Where does recognising different race strategies stop and 'team orders' begin? As I've said, this will be hypothetical until one of the drivers is mathematically out of it. And then, we can start a whole new thread(s!) on exactly what Head means by "assist" and whether or not it's legal...
Last edited by garcon; 5 Aug 2003 at 13:26. |
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5 Aug 2003, 13:27 (Ref:680492)
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#35 | |||
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Quote:
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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5 Aug 2003, 13:29 (Ref:680495)
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#36 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 356
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1) Slow pit stop or additional stop
2) Minor off (I was trying too hard and put a wheel over the edge) 3) Brake fade (a la Eddie Irvine) 4) Fuel pick up problem, even weave side to side to show for cameras I'm sure there are lots of others too |
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5 Aug 2003, 13:32 (Ref:680496)
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#37 | ||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Yeah, but he already said that he didn't pay attention to the others...
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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5 Aug 2003, 14:18 (Ref:680526)
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#38 | ||
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Weasel Wrangler Veteran
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__________________
"Never pick a fight with an ugly person, they've got nothing to lose."
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5 Aug 2003, 14:19 (Ref:680528)
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#39 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 286
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BMW could put their engine down to 14000 rpm when needed
during the race without telling the driver. And when Monty is passed by, just bring it back to 19000! |
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5 Aug 2003, 14:30 (Ref:680538)
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#40 | ||
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Weasel Wrangler Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Welcome Scorchy One...
Don't think Ralf ever takes it past 14k anyway does he?! 
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"Never pick a fight with an ugly person, they've got nothing to lose."
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5 Aug 2003, 14:46 (Ref:680549)
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#41 | ||
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Isn't two way telemetry banned? I forget (they kept changing htere minds about such things!). In which case they would have to ask the driver to flick a switch or move a dial to reduce the limiter (????).
I think Montoya was (slightly) unsure about it because there isn't an obvious reason behind it. |
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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6 Aug 2003, 07:10 (Ref:681005)
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#42 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 495
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I'd love to be at the Schumacher family residence watching Suzuka when Ralf is holding up Michael and letting JPM romp away.......
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6 Aug 2003, 11:00 (Ref:681141)
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#43 | ||
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Weasel Wrangler Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,885
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Hey everybody, I have an apology to make
There have been times when I've thought some of you lot knew nothing about the intricacies of F1. Then I found this on BBC... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ay/2755339.stm I only read half the comments - any further and I'd have chucked me laptop out the window So, I'm sorry everyone here at 10Tenths if I've ever suggested anything to the contrary - you're all absolute experts in my book... 
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6 Aug 2003, 12:53 (Ref:681231)
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#44 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 778
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It seems that the use (?) of team orders may extend beyond the top three teams which are still in the fight for one or both championships.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns11613.html Much as I like Trulli and would like to see him have a good result, I don't think the team should interfere in this sort of situation. 
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