[Rumours] Groundhog Day’s Hamilton vs Masi - P45s at the ready?

[Adam43]

So you’re saying he was?

(The question was first answered in post #28. I was merely continuing this trend.)

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Adam43

So you’re saying he was?

(The question was first answered in post #28. I was merely continuing this trend.)

Yes - crmalcolm answered the original question in post #36 with attached images of the FIA org charts - maybe the attached images don't show up on Tapatalk if that is what you're using?

[Adam43]

I don’t use Tapatalk, that’ll be it then.

[Akrapovic]

I feel like the FAQs here need a new entry - understanding Adam43s posts.

And of course an entry for "Was Masi in the org chart?"

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Skam85

To be fair I had read that on another article but didn't really look into it that much.

If he's gone he's gone - but it may be a case of be careful what you wish for. Will Masi's replacement be better? He or she likely won't have as much experience, but then again a fresh set of eyes may not be the worst thing. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Well the last 4 races of 2021 were some of the worst officiated races I've seen in any series. And I watch SRO officiated races. It's actually hard to think how the last 4 races could've been handled worse.

[S griffin]

I agree, Masi seemed to have lost the plot by the end of it. He seemed not to be able to take control of a situation and was letting team bosses influence his calls

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by Adam43

So you’re saying he was?

(The question was first answered in post #28. I was merely continuing this trend.)

I don’t understand your series of posts on the last few pages.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I agree, Masi seemed to have lost the plot by the end of it. He seemed not to be able to take control of a situation and was letting team bosses influence his calls

Not sure that is quite fair, it was a perfect storm of circumstances and previously ALL the teams agreed with the FIA that wherever possible races should not finish under the safety car.

The irony of this is that because the result did not go their way, Mercedes are protesting on the way the final laps were handled becuase not finishing under the safety car didn't go in their favour. I believe they were also going to bring the Spa race result into their protest over Masi, when he did run and finish the race under the safety car, which they believe compromised LH's result!

To be honest, I am tired of the almost hysterical reaction we have had from TW, if the roles were reversed they would have banked the win with no thought of RBR and MV.

As Murray Walker said, F1 is IF backwards and The Race website have done some excellent analsys of the season as a whole and when the opportunitues that led to them ending up on joint points were won and lost, and Jolyn Palmer had done an excellent video on the last lap which show that actually Hamilton did not defend the move because he was expecting it come to later in the lap, so Max caught Lewis slightly napping and by then it was too late.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

The irony of this is that because the result did not go their way, Mercedes are protesting on the way the final laps were handled becuase not finishing under the safety car didn't go in their favour. I believe they were also going to bring the Spa race result into their protest over Masi, when he did run and finish the race under the safety car, which they believe compromised LH's result!

To be honest, I am tired of the almost hysterical reaction we have had from TW, if the roles were reversed they would have banked the win with no thought of RBR and MV.

Hysterical reaction? not sure ive seen any hysteria. Ive seen a team manager calmly using his right to protest the result of a race, following the governings body seemingly to flout their own rules costing Mercedes the championship. He hasnt said much in the media, and what has been said is very measured....far from hysteria.

If you want to apportion hysteria to anyone, look at the way Red Bull handled Silverstone and Saudi....THAT was hysteria, and it didnt cost them a championship.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Hysterical reaction? not sure ive seen any hysteria. Ive seen a team manager calmly using his right to protest the result of a race, following the governings body seemingly to flout their own rules costing Mercedes the championship. He hasnt said much in the media, and what has been said is very measured....far from hysteria.

If you want to apportion hysteria to anyone, look at the way Red Bull handled Silverstone and Saudi....THAT was hysteria, and it didnt cost them a championship.

“It was tremendously hard for him and for us as a team to withdraw the appeal because we were wronged,” continued Wolff.

“We deeply believe that in Formula 1 – the pinnacle of motor racing, one of the most important sports in the world – justice is being done. So my soul and my heart cries with every bone that this should have been judged in the right way. "

or

Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff admits that the squad may never overcome the "pain" caused by the outcome of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix."

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

“It was tremendously hard for him and for us as a team to withdraw the appeal because we were wronged,” continued Wolff.

“We deeply believe that in Formula 1 – the pinnacle of motor racing, one of the most important sports in the world – justice is being done. So my soul and my heart cries with every bone that this should have been judged in the right way. "

or

Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff admits that the squad may never overcome the "pain" caused by the outcome of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix."

Point out which part is 'hysterical'

Toto has stated that he feels the team was wronged - correct and not hysterical

Toto has stated its a painful loss that they may not overcome - again not hysterical, just stating a feeling.

Contrast that with the likes of Horner, Marko, Max after Silverstone and Saudi and you see hysteria.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Point out which part is 'hysterical'

Toto has stated that he feels the team was wronged - correct and not hysterical

Toto has stated its a painful loss that they may not overcome - again not hysterical, just stating a feeling.

Contrast that with the likes of Horner, Marko, Max after Silverstone and Saudi and you see hysteria.

Sorry, but this is a business that has swept all before it in F1 and won everything, sometimes at a canter, a great achievement and testament to the team and Hamilton, But in the context of the scheme of things I don't think you can really see it as a 'painful loss' they may never get over or 'my soul and my heart cries with every bone'.

It's this out of proportion overly emotive language that I am referring to.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Sorry, but this is a business that has swept all before it in F1 and won everything, sometimes at a canter, a great achievement and testament to the team and Hamilton, But in the context of the scheme of things I don't think you can really see it as a 'painful loss' they may never get over or 'my soul and my heart cries with every bone'.

It's this out of proportion overly emotive language that I am referring to.

Again, where is it hysterical?

Of course its a painful loss, having an entire 12 months work taken away from you in a split second decision after dominating the last race.

You can level the same accusation you are using at Red Bull and horner who won for years, and yet their comments at times this year have been far more hysterical than anything you level at Toto.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Again, where is it hysterical?

I am sorry to jump into this. Maybe hysterical is only slightly too much. Maybe melodramatic or histrionic might fit better. But I think whatever Toto is saying is much closer to hysterical than not! I find his comments hysterically funny!

During races when they do their obligatory shot of Toto deep in the back of the garage, they are looking to get those shots of him being emotional. Fits pumps, shouting, throwing headsets, etc. But he typically does seem to cool down. We are weeks past the event. He clearly is still quite upset. Maybe we shouldn't be surprised to see language like this from him.

Richard

[Akrapovic]

Budkowski was in line for the race directors job after Charlie. This didn't happen because he went to Renault.

Budkowski has now left Alpine, and Masi has disappeared from FIA Org charts.

[Adam43]

Was he on them before?

[Adam43]

While this is all a load of whatsit. I see Hamilton is getting his P45 and Vettel is going to replace him.

I’m up for that. Vettel is my favorite and it would be great to see.

While I’m flippant in a lot of things in this thread (most, maybe all so far) that last sentence is 100% genuine.

[Derwent]

I do hope Lulu does retire, for both the sport and his sakes. We need to move on and have new blood and Lewis needs to get a real life.

[Adam43]

I hope he does what he wants. The sport will be poorer if we lose his talent.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Derwent

I do hope Lulu does retire, for both the sport and his sakes. We need to move on and have new blood and Lewis needs to get a real life.

Utter tosh.

If 2021 proved anything, it was the doubters wrong, those who said Lewis only won because he was in the best car.

In a car comparable, and slower than the red bull at times he matched and had Max beat all for but 1 lap.

Life in the old dog yet and proves how good he is to be going up against the best of the young blood

[S griffin]

Hamilton will still be the one to beat despite no longer being champ. Especially as he should have been champ in 2021. I wouldn’t want to bet against him yet

[Born Racer]

This has partly been stoked out of Hamilton's non-additions to social media. It appears to be conjecture. I would've thought he'd be determined to return and still beat Verstappen. It would be worse to go out like this. However, he will have his own decision-making.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

This has partly been stoked out of Hamilton's non-additions to social media. It appears to be conjecture. I would've thought he'd be determined to return and still beat Verstappen. It would be worse to go out like this. However, he will have his own decision-making.

I think it has also stemmed from Toto saying things like:

"I really hope we see him again. It would be a disgrace for the whole of F1 if the best driver decided to retire because of outrageous decisions."

when asked about Lewis.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Sorry, but this is a business that has swept all before it in F1 and won everything, sometimes at a canter, a great achievement and testament to the team and Hamilton, But in the context of the scheme of things I don't think you can really see it as a 'painful loss' they may never get over or 'my soul and my heart cries with every bone'.

It's this out of proportion overly emotive language that I am referring to.

I think you are confusing two things.
Just my opinion but I see F1 as a 'sport' in the sense that it is competition between teams and the WDC run to a set of rules that govern the competitive aspect and should be used to ensure fair and just competition.

The sport is expensive and therefore run as a business.
That Mercedes have conducted their business aspect in a very efficient way that has allowed them to dominate in a similar way to which they dominated the competition in the 1950's is to their credit and has nothing to do with the events over the final laps at Abu Dhabi.

When you you bring subjective opinion about their success into evaluating the feelings of their manager expressed about issues that may be ethical/moral/justice/equity/sporting or fairness you may be considered by some as saying 'you've had your share, buzz off its somebody else's turn regardless of whether its fair/just/according to the rules/sorting/competition etc

Winning in sport, at all 'costs' (any means regardless of the rules or fairness and justice in the competition) is an affront to the sense of 'sport' or 'competition' between individuals or teams.
It makes the the whole sporting aspect pointless and a waste of time and energy. There is no point in participating if the basic principles of what is respectful competition is abandoned.
Example
If a football match is so ridden with penalties, foul play, physical abuse and reduced to little more than a high scoring shootout for 80 minutes the result becomes meaningless.
Winning athletics on steroids, or with a secret mechanical assist, or watching one completely dominant team score at will for 80 minutes isn't interesting or entertaining. They are efficient and the better team. But itis not worth watching.

We had an entertaining season of GP racing right up to the last lap.
But having the race director set up a last lap that was completely lop sided and unjust to the driver who had dominated the previous laps of the race to that point virtually denied a chance at competing with the other driver on an equal basis over that final lap is an indictment against the organisers of the competition.

Not Mercedes, not red Bull, not Max or Hamilton. But the FIA.
Its not about whether Max ids a worthy champion, or whether Mercedes and Hamilton have had enough titles, otr whether awarding Max the title is good for the sport.
All those things are irrelevant to the result of what happened on the last lap.
It shouldn't have happened.
It shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
That's the problem Michael Masi created.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Adam43

While this is all a load of whatsit. I see Hamilton is getting his P45 and Vettel is going to replace him.

I’m up for that. Vettel is my favorite and it would be great to see.

Care to elaborate why Mercedes would choose Vettel instead of Ocon?

The predicted scenario by most, in the event of sudden Hamilton retirement, is Ocon to Mercedes and Piastri to Alpine. That seems logical.

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Toto has stated its a painful loss that they may not overcome - again not hysterical, just stating a feeling.

It's motor racing weird stuff happens, and Wolff said he welcomes competition from Red Bull. Many F1 fans are pleased with the WDC result and have no concerns abut minor safety procedural anomalies.