Max Chilton @ India

[csirl]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Really? The worst in at least a decade? Really?
Wow, some people really do have dodgy memories...

And what is your definition for 'terrible'? sure he hasn't been fast, but he's been close to his teammate more often than not, and has beaten him as recently as the last race. Plus, Chilton is the only driver to finish every race this season.
Hardly terrible.

He has been way off the pace in races in comparison with his team mate. You can see that Bianchi has some potential even though he's in the same car.

*ahem* Yuji Ide?

Ide has a 13th place finish in a F1 race, and with only 4 starts. Chilton hasnt finished this high in 16 starts. Using the F1 Championship drivers rankings, this would place Ide ahead of Chilton.

[W.A Trichlorostyrene]

Originally Posted by garcon

He beat him in India...

And he beat him and the two Catherhams, at Suzuka of all places, in qualifying.

Originally Posted by csirl

Ide has a 13th place finish in a F1 race, and with only 4 starts. Chilton hasnt finished this high in 16 starts. Using the F1 Championship drivers rankings, this would place Ide ahead of Chilton.

The only thing it shows is that reliability has gone a long way in F1 over the past few years.

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I don't think he's ruining the image of F1 because most people don't pay any attention to these backmarkers - above a vague awareness of that obscure backmarker at the back is a Brit.

Bingo.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by csirl

Ide has a 13th place finish in a F1 race, and with only 4 starts. Chilton hasnt finished this high in 16 starts. Using the F1 Championship drivers rankings, this would place Ide ahead of Chilton.

13th, and last. Talk about meaningless statistics.

I would have finished 14th in that race in my old Ford Capri.

[jobdone]

Originally Posted by pauln

*ahem* Yuji Ide?

Beat me to it!

I actually think Chilton has improved as the year has gone on, and deserves a second season.

[JeremySmith]

Sorry but "Max Chilton" sounds like a piece of cheese... very rich cheese...

[JeremySmith]

Sorry but "Max Chilton" sounds like a piece of cheese... very rich cheese...

[dusty]

I met young Mr Chilton a few years ago, and he was a very pleasant and polite young man. I find some of the insults thrown at him are of the "green eyed" variety. I would love to see some of these armchair drivers do a lap in an F1 car that was only 2 seconds off pole position!

[bella]

and it's not a matter of being 2 seconds off pole (hang on, where was that?? spa??) in a one-make formula either. it's f1.

totally agree. respect to the guy, he's doing a decent job with the tools he has been given. if he was further up the grid i don't know how his pace would translate, but at the southernmost tip, it's pretty decent.

[csirl]

Originally Posted by dusty

I met young Mr Chilton a few years ago, and he was a very pleasant and polite young man. I find some of the insults thrown at him are of the "green eyed" variety. I would love to see some of these armchair drivers do a lap in an F1 car that was only 2 seconds off pole position!

C'mon, nobody on this thread is claiming to be a better driver than Chilton. What is being claimed is that, his performances suggest that he is not up to F1 and should be replaced by a better driver. If my results in my chosen profession were as dissappointing as Chilton's in F1, I'd expect to be unemployed very soon.

There's an element of 'shoot the messager' about some of the Chilton advocates on this thread - can't argue with the objective points made, so they try to turn it into something personal, which it isnt. I've no doubt that Chilton is a very pleasant person - he comes across this way.

[bella]

hope you're not suggesting i'm an advocate. like i said, unfortunately he stands for some very unpleasant things about modern society and it's astounding that after his gp2 career he can be considered a worthy f1 driver. BUT if you're going to throw rocks then you must remember what he is actually doing and what he has managed to do this year.

reading some of your posts it's as if the guy is finishing 2 laps behind his teammate in every race. that's not the case, and there are plenty out there who would do a far worse job.

unfortunately, some of those ills of modern society that he stands for are things that are very... provocative. that kind of wealth, that kind of privilege, it's very offensive to people on a personal level. and it's offensive to them that their sport is being used in this way by people, regardless of whether there's a historical precedent for that already.

and seriously, if someone just resents him for his sporting achievements then they probably should go and speak to a therapist about that. a hate that strong created purely from one young mans sporting career is a really unhealthy thing. but if it's a hate towards his position in society as well that makes it a little more understandable, but no less destructive.

[csirl]

Originally Posted by bella

unfortunately, some of those ills of modern society that he stands for are things that are very... provocative. that kind of wealth, that kind of privilege, it's very offensive to people on a personal level. and it's offensive to them that their sport is being used in this way by people, regardless of whether there's a historical precedent for that already.

Where do I start, what's all this about? Can you explain this in more detail? I'm completely lost as to what 'ills of modern society' you say the Chiltern's stand for? They seem an inoffensive bunch to me.....not an expert on them, but is there something about them that we're all unaware of? What's wrong with success in business etc? Why is it offensive?

a hate that strong created purely from one young mans sporting career is a really unhealthy thing.

This is strong stuff for a light hearted forum. For most of us F1 is something we love and follow. I'm not sure that its healthy to be considering a sporting entertainment in terms of hate. I'd hope that most of the posters who express opinions on drivers aren't even ballpark in the 'hate' category. Sounds a bit obsesive to me.

Or are you just trolling?

[Paradise City]

Guys. I kinda like the journeymen backmakers. I always liked the mystique of that as long as their money doesn't buy them a place too high up the grid. All part of the charming eccentricity of the sport. As long as they can met a certain minimum level of competency mind you. I don't rate Chilton but I don't find him particularly objectionable either.

[bella]

Originally Posted by csirl

Where do I start, what's all this about? Can you explain this in more detail? I'm completely lost as to what 'ills of modern society' you say the Chiltern's stand for? They seem an inoffensive bunch to me.....not an expert on them, but is there something about them that we're all unaware of? What's wrong with success in business etc? Why is it offensive?

This is strong stuff for a light hearted forum. For most of us F1 is something we love and follow. I'm not sure that its healthy to be considering a sporting entertainment in terms of hate. I'd hope that most of the posters who express opinions on drivers aren't even ballpark in the 'hate' category. Sounds a bit obsesive to me.

Or are you just trolling?

i wrote this really long, detailed response based on society, the polarisation of the rich and the poor and the consumerist world we live in. then i decided it was probably wasted, since it's the kind of thing you either see or you don't.

to be honest, i don't see trying to understand where the resentment and warped expectations for this weird hate comes from - and it is hate, if you look at the language. the ability to dislike something that much is unhealthy, not the desire to look at it and understand why it's happening.

you're angling the accusation of trolling at the wrong person, i'm afraid. but forgive me for trying to add a grown-up element to what started out as a bit of a mud-flinging session. if you want mud-flinging, there's lots of 15 year olds on twitter who you can join in with.

[miniman]

Originally Posted by bella

i wrote this really long, detailed response based on society, the polarisation of the rich and the poor and the consumerist world we live in. then i decided it was probably wasted, since it's the kind of thing you either see or you don't.

to be honest, i don't see trying to understand where the resentment and warped expectations for this weird hate comes from - and it is hate, if you look at the language. the ability to dislike something that much is unhealthy, not the desire to look at it and understand why it's happening.

you're angling the accusation of trolling at the wrong person, i'm afraid. but forgive me for trying to add a grown-up element to what started out as a bit of a mud-flinging session. if you want mud-flinging, there's lots of 15 year olds on twitter who you can join in with.

I do agree Bella. You usually offer a reasoned and intelligent post here so thankyou

Max is a delightful young man - I do know him and while I don't think he should be in F1 there's no reason to dislike let alone hate him. We all have our favourites and those we like less but this isn't or shouldn't be a place to vent such dark feelings

[bella]

quite. all through chilton's f1 career, particularly around when tests and race drives have been announced, there's been a lot of doom mongering and denial of talent. well, here we are, the end of the season, and so far he's finished every race, kept his highly rated teammate honest and has only really done the occasional rookie mistake.

we'd be kidding ourselves if we thought any of our favourites could do a vastly better job in the same situation with that car and those tools available to him.

it's not to say he's not exempt from criticism, but he's doing a decent job.

[jondownunder]

Don't understand the point of this thread at all. Yes, Chilton has reached F1 thanks to privilege at every step of the motorsport ladder, but in the history of the sport there have been far worse. On his day he could be very good in F3 and GP2, that's not something you could say of numerous pay drivers of the past. Just buying into a team doesn't guarantee your son 4th place finishes in the standings in both British F3 and GP2 - respectable achievements at the very least.

Plus he's up against a former F3 Euro Series champion who very nearly won the FR3.5 title, so it's not as though he's consistently off the pace of a mere journeyman driver. Yes, there are many drivers more deserving of the seat, drivers I'd rather see in the Marussia, but isn't that always the way? Not sure why Chilton needs to be singled out for such vitriol. For someone who's wealthy family has bought him the seat, he's a competent driver.

[bella]

well put.

also, unlike some other "pay drivers", the wealth hasn't just bought him a f1 drive but it's bought him a very good motorsport education on the way up, good fitness training, good mental training, he's exceptionally well prepared to make use of the talent he does have. unlike someone like sirotkin who has a truckload more natural talent, but doesn't yet have the tools yet to use it.

[davec]

When has F1 EVER been populated with the best drivers.

Chilton has been as close to Bianchi as VDG has been to Pic and I would rate Bianchi higher than Pic so why not go on about VDG more.

There was a thread on this site a few months back about Tom Chilton basically saying the same things. Tom has 10 race wins in BTCC podiums and wins in WTCC and people think he is rubbish. OK he has advantages over most people with budget and has had things easier getting into teams but top level motorsport needs more than just ability. So many drivers in so many categories have used "other means" to get drives so why go on about Max and Tom.

In F1 alone I could mention Karun Chandhok, Markus Winkelhock, Sakon Yamamoto, Yuji Ide, Scott Speed, Zsolt Baumgartner

All have got to F1 when there were better drivers available but they either had money/connections/right nationality, all got some raised eyebrows over their selection but none of them were subjected to so many posts that amount to basic jealousy because they have a more privileged life. IF max was a danger, or kept crashing maybe someone would have penalised him by now but this has not happened because he is NOT doing it. Paul Di Resta has probably been more erratic and made more mistakes this year than Chilton.

If there was a female driver that was even close to being ready for F1 we all know that she would be picked over men because of the other advantages she would bring in terms of publicity to small teams, that unfortunately is life.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by davec

When has F1 EVER been populated with the best drivers.

Chilton has been as close to Bianchi as VDG has been to Pic and I would rate Bianchi higher than Pic so why not go on about VDG more.

There was a thread on this site a few months back about Tom Chilton basically saying the same things. Tom has 10 race wins in BTCC podiums and wins in WTCC and people think he is rubbish. OK he has advantages over most people with budget and has had things easier getting into teams but top level motorsport needs more than just ability. So many drivers in so many categories have used "other means" to get drives so why go on about Max and Tom.

In F1 alone I could mention Karun Chandhok, Markus Winkelhock, Sakon Yamamoto, Yuji Ide, Scott Speed, Zsolt Baumgartner

All have got to F1 when there were better drivers available but they either had money/connections/right nationality, all got some raised eyebrows over their selection but none of them were subjected to so many posts that amount to basic jealousy because they have a more privileged life. IF max was a danger, or kept crashing maybe someone would have penalised him by now but this has not happened because he is NOT doing it. Paul Di Resta has probably been more erratic and made more mistakes this year than Chilton.

If there was a female driver that was even close to being ready for F1 we all know that she would be picked over men because of the other advantages she would bring in terms of publicity to small teams, that unfortunately is life.

Good one I second that !

[csirl]

Originally Posted by bella

to be honest, i don't see trying to understand where the resentment and warped expectations for this weird hate comes from - and it is hate, if you look at the language. the ability to dislike something that much is unhealthy, not the desire to look at it and understand why it's happening.

Who hate's who? I must be reading a different thread to you. I've looked back on the previous posts and there's nothing outside the usual stuff you see on most threads. No evidence of any hatred or personal comments for anyone responding to the OP with the one notable exception being yourself attacking people and accussing them of hatred and of being advocates of some weird left wing whacko stuff.

unfortunately, some of those ills of modern society that he stands for are things that are very... provocative. that kind of wealth, that kind of privilege, it's very offensive to people on a personal level. and it's offensive to them that their sport is being used in this way by people, regardless of whether there's a historical precedent for that already.

At the risk of going way off topic and into political beliefs, do you actually believe this stuff? Do you find wealth offensive etc? I would have thought that modern F1 would be about as unappealing as it gets for anyone with extreme left wing political views?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by dusty

I met young Mr Chilton a few years ago, and he was a very pleasant and polite young man. I find some of the insults thrown at him are of the "green eyed" variety. I would love to see some of these armchair drivers do a lap in an F1 car that was only 2 seconds off pole position!

Ooh, sorry, but I'm an armchair fan. I'm not supposed to be one of the world's top 22 drivers. That's not my job...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I'm amazed me ranting about what I thought was a boneheaded move by him at turn 2 (which was certainly a Marussia - maybe it was Bianchi being a prick) has suddenly turned into an argument over who really was the worst driver in F1, and, even more worryingly, society itself!

[csirl]

Originally Posted by davec

In F1 alone I could mention Karun Chandhok, Markus Winkelhock, Sakon Yamamoto, Yuji Ide, Scott Speed, Zsolt Baumgartner

All have got to F1 when there were better drivers available but they either had money/connections/right nationality, all got some raised eyebrows over their selection but none of them were subjected to so many posts that amount to basic jealousy because they have a more privileged life. .

Is the criticism due to his privileged life or his results? There have been a lot of drivers come in for a lot of criticism on this forum over the years for poor results. It's also fair to say that, all things considered, there are better driver options out there.

[Paulaweybridge]

Great post ...

I first met Max Chilton and his father 'Chilly Chilton' at Buckmore Park in Max's karting days. I took quite a few photographs of Max.

Forget their wealth, I found Max and his dad really down to earth people and had time to talk to everybody.

In 2003, I met Tom Chilton when I was involved in Formula Ford with 'Team Jato Motorsport'. He was driving in the BTCC. Again a smashing guy who would always come up to see how our team was doing.

In January 2009, I saw them together at the 'Autosport International' show and they both said 'Hi'.

Originally Posted by dusty

I met young Mr Chilton a few years ago, and he was a very pleasant and polite young man. I find some of the insults thrown at him are of the "green eyed" variety. I would love to see some of these armchair drivers do a lap in an F1 car that was only 2 seconds off pole position!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I'm amazed me ranting about what I thought was a boneheaded move by him at turn 2 (which was certainly a Marussia - maybe it was Bianchi being a prick) has suddenly turned into an argument over who really was the worst driver in F1, and, even more worryingly, society itself!

I think the forum members quickly worked out their opinion on the original rant and moved on to something else! Via a wonder of how such a rant could come about.

Cheers for the discussion.