Saloon Driving standards

[zefarelly]

It seems to me that an overwhelming amount of discussion exists regarding driving standards in saloons, Why not in other typres of car ? has it always been like this? certainly BTCC would suggest so !

Granted there are incidents all the time in any race series, but saloons is a recurring problem, on a regular basis.

I've witnessed a lot of contact and damage and a few nasty accidents damage wise, as well as some pretty sppaling driving and courtesy. I've personally been fortunate enough to keep my car pretty clean and tidy into my 4th years of racing it. Granted I'm not on the front row or anything, but being in the middle of any grid is usually a pretty busy place to be.

the one thing that keeps me questioning this is when I did my ARDS I was shown a video and told, drive like that and you'll loose your licence. well I've witnessed driving like it, but only ever heard of one reprimand, which by all accounts was a waste of breath, and served no purpose.

[zefarelly]

obviously everyone considers themselves to be so bloody good despite being amateur racers that they have nothing to declare?

or is it the cars are so over prepared they drive themselves?

[davyboy]

I've often wondered myself... but it would appear that people feel more cocooned in a saloon than in a single seater and know that bumping and boring won't take off a wing or a corner. Its funny since they introduced bodywork in direct drive karting 'for safety reasons' driving standards have deteriorated significantly.

It must have something to do with the fragility of the cars and the subsequent affect on drivers' mindsets.

[zefarelly]

I agree to a point, I also wonder whether traditioanlly saloons where seen as throw away cars, whereas sports and racing cars never have been

although none of that should be relevant in historics as nothings cheap for any pre 1970 car now, and even racier 70's cars are getting pricey

[rcarr]

The BTCC is a bad example of saloon racing, they are perceived by the public that they are good racing drivers and saloon racing is all about contact.

Most club racers and I am sure others too, have a concern about preserving the car rather than wrecking it at the weekends. BTCC drivers don't care because they see them as big bumper cars and if they wreck them they will get a new shiny one by the next race.

I am too young to know but was there as much "rubbing" in the British touring cars in the 70s? Was it the "Sierra and BMW brigade" that made it more physical in the mid to late 80s?

[Podd37]

As someone who has raced a variety of series on and off for almost 20yrs, usually at the pointy end but without a win, I have often been criticised for not 'getting stuck in or having the killer instinct' required to win. This may be so but I can hand on heart say I have never caused an ounce of damage to someone elses car or had a bad shunt on my own. I will not hit someone just to get by them. I have taken hits, usually from behind I might add, from people that are regarded as great drivers and have had to miss events as my wreck gets fixed. I was watching the BTCC and its support events over the weekend and was amazed at the lack of genuine overtaking moves that didnt involve beating the back panel of the guy in front. Even in the single seat classes. It just seems indemic now in a way I dont remember when I started.

[rcarr]

We had an instance last meeting when a certain driver was only allowed to race at the mercy of all the other competitors of the race, bascially he had an illegal rear wing for the championship. He was told by the Clerk of the Course that if hits anyone he is liable for prosocuition because he wasn't running in the championship for that meeting. His remark to that was "its not my fault if I hit anyone," this guy drives a very quick and powerful car, one of the quickest on the grid, why does he have that mentality?

The most physical race I've ever been in was the XR2 championship, the last race of the season, it was mayhem! They would do anything possible to gain more points. One guy fluffed the start or spun out from the top 3 and he was at least 1 lap behind everyone else, he decided to punt off as many cars in front of him as possible. My Dad and I hired cars for this 1 race, this guy slammed into my Dad who wasn't even running in the championship!

The main instigator of the violence in the championship was refused a club membership last season, I don't think he has been back since.

As a sports and saloons driver we have a mixture of metal and fibreglass cars and we try to avoid touching each other at all costs because we all know that it'll come out of our pockets if we damage our cars. The guy that I mentioned at the top, I don't think money is a deciding factor because his car apparently cost £60k to build!

[johnh875]

That's probably the key element, the true amateur driver won't want to waste money fixing panel damage, and the rewards (prizemoney, sponsorship or tin cups - some or all often non-existent) are not worth it.

In Australian touring car racing we have a slightly different situation currently I think. The V8 Supercars have tried all sorts of rules to prevent BTCC style "push to pass" antics, however a hurry-up tap on the rear bumper is routine.

In historics there tends to be the odd bit of panel damage, usually as a result of a mistake in proximity to another car (or wall). Any of the drivers on here may have a better opinion however! The most serious accident I can remember was at Philip Island this year on the grid. There has probably been just as much if not more angst in the open-wheelers, as a couple of our contributors have reflected after meetings.

[zefarelly]

I think saloons are generally heavier than sports racers and single seaters so damage is easier to cause, and more visibly evident in panel work.

the one time I got nurffed from behind it felt deliberate, but the other car was significantly heavier than me and the camber of the road made it feel worse than it was, at the end of the day it was just a scratch, but it could have been much worse, I guess he had understter and pushed me into oversteer

I agree that a vast majority of us don't drive like BTCC drivers , and lets face it the cars are covered in a thin plastic skin which is designed to fall off for effect and spectator appeal as much as anything ! its free for them whereas our panels are expensive, scarce and it come sout of our own pockets.

[rbm]

but lets face it this standard of driving is now (or seams to be) classed as acceptable.
If certain ex F1 stars can deliberately turn in to other cars to stop them and get away with a light smack on the wrist, as this is the highest profile top of the sport, then should we all be copying it ?

[zefarelly]

generally I think driving standards are good, ex pros trashing peoples pride and joy to maintain their egotistical status should not be allowed however. I couldn't give 2 hoots if a drivers a farm hand or farm owner as long as we have a good safe race

[johnh875]

Zef, at Philip Island I was speaking to a mechanic preparing one of the Lolas, and he said a nameless professional driver will never be allowed in the hot seat again. I don't believe he put a scratch on it, but he gave it a very hard time.

[johnh875]

I should add that driver wasn't driving the car on that weekend