[Race] The GROAT - Round 3 - 2011 Montreal vs 1993 Donington

[crmalcolm]

2011 Montreal
The track was wet before the race, as rain showers had hit the area throughout the day. The race was due to start at 13:00 local time, and heavy rain was expected to arrive an hour into the race. The air temperature ranged between 17–19 °C (63–66 °F), with the track temperature between 18–20 °C (64–68 °F). Standing water on the track, which was causing heavy spray and impairing visibility, meant that the race would start behind the safety car and all cars would use the full wet tyres. Alguersuari would start the race from the pitlane, as he modified his Toro Rosso's set-up to optimise the car for the wet conditions.

The race began behind the safety car, with no formation lap, and despite the slow speed drivers struggled for grip on the wet surface. The safety car came into the pits after five laps, and the cars were allowed to overtake. Vettel retained first place withstanding Alonso's attempts to pass, while behind Hamilton and Webber collided at the first corner – dropping the drivers to seventh and fourteenth respectively. Button lost fifth place mid-lap after running wide, losing two places to Schumacher and Hamilton. At the end of the first racing lap, di Resta had moved up to eighth position, followed by Heidfeld and Kobayashi, who made three places off the grid. Vettel extended his lead over the next lap, while the positions behind continued to change. Kobayashi had improved to eighth and Webber recovered to twelfth, while di Resta fell back to thirteenth. Hamilton lost sixth position running wide on a failed overtaking move on Schumacher, and fell behind Button. He attempted an overtake on the pit straight, but the two drivers collided and Hamilton hit the pit wall. The accident caused Hamilton's retirement, which prompted a safety car deployment at the end of lap eight.

The race was resumed on lap 13 and Button, who had changed to intermediate tyres before the safety car period, was given a drive-through penalty for speeding behind the safety car, emerging in 15th place. Vettel began to enlarge his lead over Alonso and Massa in second and third. Alonso and the Mercedes pitted for intermediate tyres, leaving Massa in second and Kobayashi in third by lap 17. Barrichello, who switched for intermediates as the safety car came in, began setting times at the same pace as the leaders, and gained 15th position as the drivers in front changed tyres. On lap 19, a rain storm arrived at the circuit, forcing the drivers on intermediate tyres to switch back to full wets. Alonso and Button, who were in fifth and eighth respectively, fell to ninth and eleventh, while the drivers on the full wet tyres began pitting for fresh wet tyres. The safety car was brought out on lap 20 due to the intensity of the rain, and Vettel, Webber, Massa and Buemi, who had not changed tyres, went to the pitlane for fresh full wets. After six laps under the safety car, the conditions were getting worse, and the race was suspended.

Torrential rain prevented the resumption of the Grand Prix for over two hours, until the rain eased at 15:50 local time. The race was restarted behind the safety car with the drivers in the positions held before the suspension. Vettel was first, followed by Kobayashi, Massa, Heidfeld, Petrov and di Resta. Webber was in seventh place with Alonso, de la Rosa and Button behind. The safety car remained out for seven laps, during which the circuit began drying enough to be suitable for intermediate tyres, and D'Ambrosio pitted on lap 33 to change from the full wets. Vettel began to extend the lead over Kobayashi once the safety car came in on lap 35, as Massa and Heidfeld fought for Kobayashi's second place. Schumacher led several cars into the pitlane to change to intermediate tyres, while Button, Heidfeld and di Resta were among those who pitted the next lap. Vettel and Karthikeyan were the only drivers not to change tyres by lap 37, when Button came upon tenth placed Alonso as he exited the pitlane. As Button attempted to pass at turn 3 the two cars touched, and Alonso's Ferrari spun and beached upon a curb, bringing out the safety car. When the race resumed three laps later, Vettel, Kobayashi and Massa retained their positions, as Heidfeld, di Resta, Webber and Schumacher fought for fourth place. Button had a punctured tyre after the collision and was in twenty-first and last place, but immediately began to make up positions and was 14th by lap 44. Di Resta damaged his front wing attempting to overtake Heidfeld; the subsequent pit-stop and drive-through penalty dropped him down to last. Schumacher, having overtaken Webber, passed Heidfeld in fourth place, and set the fastest lap of the race.

DRS was enabled on lap 46, as Barrichello and Rosberg were contesting eighth position. Button had caught Maldonado and Alguersuari, and passed both cars for tenth place. Mark Webber was the first driver to switch to slick tyres, and was followed by Barrichello and Buemi. Kobayashi and Massa, fighting for second place, were both passed by Schumacher on lap 51; Massa then passed Kobayashi for third place. As the drivers pitted for slick tyres over the next three laps, Massa damaged his wing forcing him into another pitstop, while damage to Adrian Sutil's car led to his retirement. Button had risen from ninth after his pit-stop to fourth, and was catching the leading trio of Vettel, Schumacher and Webber. On lap 56 Heidfeld, while battling Kobayashi for fifth place, collided with the rear of the Sauber which damaged his front wing. The wing then detached and folded under the car, and Heidfeld after losing control of his car ran down an escape road on turn 3. The debris on-track from the accident called the sixth safety car period of the race.

Following the pitstops and safety car deployment, Petrov had gained sixth place while Barrichello, Alguersuari, Rosberg and Maldonado were in the remaining point scoring positions. Schumacher and Webber, who had contested second place before the safety car, resumed their fight as the race resumed on lap 61. Barrichello was passed by Rosberg and Alguersuari before Massa, who had been in eleventh place, overtook both Williams cars for ninth. Kobayashi lost fifth place to Petrov, and Maldonado retired by spinning off on the wet track at turn two. Webber, passing Schumacher using DRS, cut the chicane on lap 64 and ceded the position back to avoid a penalty. Button passed Webber, after he again cut the chicane, and Schumacher on the same lap, and gained second place. As Button began catching race leader Vettel, Webber overtook Schumacher for third place on lap 67. On the same lap di Resta retired because of a puncture, and Massa gained eighth position from Alguersuari. The fastest lap of the race was set by Button on lap 69, setting a time of 1:16.956 as he was closing to Vettel for the race lead.

Vettel led by 0.9 seconds on the final lap, before he ran wide at turn six. Button passed him to take the lead, and held it to win the race. Vettel recovered from going off-track and finished second, ahead of Webber in third and Schumacher in fourth. Petrov took fifth place, while Massa passed Kobayashi on the finish line for sixth place. Alguersuari, Barrichello and Buemi filled the final point scoring positions, and Rosberg's car had lost the front wing, dropping him to eleventh. De la Rosa was twelfth, and Liuzzi, d'Ambrosio, Glock, Trulli and Karthikeyan were the final classified drivers.


1993 Donington
At the start, it was damp and Schumacher blocked Senna and both lost time and Wendlinger took third. Having dropped to fifth, Senna quickly passed Schumacher at the third corner. He then went after Wendlinger, passing him through the Craner Curves with Schumacher and Andretti trying to follow through. Schumacher went through but Andretti hit Wendlinger and both were out. Senna went after Hill now and took second at McLean's Corner. Now Prost was the target and the lead was taken at the penultimate corner - the Melbourne Hairpin. Going into the second lap, Senna led Prost, Hill, Barrichello (who had started 12th), Schumacher and Lehto.

The track began to dry and everyone pitted for dry tyres. Lehto was fifth, having started from the pit lane, but he retired with handling problems on lap 14. Berger took the place but he too retired with suspension problems six laps later. It rained again and the leaders now pitted for wets. Schumacher stayed out and was leading but spun off on lap 23 because he was on the wrong tyres. The track began to dry and everyone pitted once again with Senna having a problem and losing 20 seconds. Prost now led Senna, Hill, Rubens Barrichello, Derek Warwick and Herbert.

It began to rain and the two Williams stopped for wets while Senna stayed out. It was the correct decision because it began to dry again. The Williams stopped yet again for dries. Prost stalled in the pits in his stop and when he rejoined, he was a lap behind and down in fourth. Barrichello was now second but it rained and then stopped again. He went to the pits twice and by now Hill was in second, albeit a lap down. Barrichello, third, had trouble with his fuel pressure and retired, giving the place to Prost. Senna set the fastest lap on lap 57, on a lap when he drove into the pitlane but aborted the pit stop, showing that there actually was a shortcut through the pitlane. This is due to the grand prix configuration of Donington, which has the pit entry before the final hairpin corner onto the start/finish straight. This is possibly the only fastest lap in modern F1 history set by driving through the pitlane.

Senna won from Hill and Prost, having made four pit stops in the wet-dry conditions compared to Prost's seven, which is a record that stands as of 2011. Johnny Herbert finished fourth for Lotus by stopping only once while all the other finishing drivers stopped in the pits several times. Patrese and Barbazza took the last two points scoring places. By the end, Senna had lapped the entire field except for one car and finished over a minute ahead of second place Damon Hill.

[BTCC frog]

As much as I love the Donington circuit and as impressive as Ayrton Senna's first lap was, the race as a whole cannot beat Montreal 2011 in my opinion.

[Aysedasi]

For me, Donington '93 is a given.... And not just for the first lap.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

For me, Donington '93 is a given.... And not just for the first lap.

Yep. Totally.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

As much as I love the Donington circuit and as impressive as Ayrton Senna's first lap was, the race as a whole cannot beat Montreal 2011 in my opinion.

Underline your opinion!

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Underline your opinion!

Everything is 'your opinion' in the GROAT. In terms of the best driver of all time, there sort of is a correct answer, and we are just guessing at who it is. For some, other factors are in play such as racing fairly or excitement to watch, some value overtaking more or skills in different conditions, and of course nobody can really know as the cars Fangio drove were so different to the ones Hamilton drives. But I think there probably is a correct answer in terms of the driver who would beat all the others in equal cars that were somehow suited to their era's style of racing and adjusted for difficulty etc. It is just impossible to know who it is for sure because the situation is totally ridiculous and impractical even if all the drivers were still alive and at their peak.

But the best race of all time is entirely subjective and is all about how much everyone enjoyed it as an individual. So there is no correct answer in terms of Montreal 2011 vs Donington 1993. But I believe there is a correct answer as to who is better out of Ayrton Senna or Jenson Button, but not one which we as mere mortals can ever know for sure (although it is probably Senna). Actually Montreal 2011 is not objectively better than the one that came after it, Valencia 2011, but subjectively almost everyone would see it as better.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

But the best race of all time is entirely subjective and is all about how much everyone enjoyed it as an individual.

Exactly so.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

For me, Donington '93 is a given.... And not just for the first lap.

However, for those who haven't seen the lap before. https://fb.watch/ck7fBnyN0O/