The first BTCC 2009 thread!- VXR in 09

[andy_b]

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

a) you don't seem to have completed the Holden version yet... surely it'll take a nice snorty V8

b) where's my WTCC guide, you slacker? Get your nose back to the grindstone - those Ladas won't draw themselves, you know...

c) is Eurosport going to pay


Guide in progress Holden version was an idea, but there is no series in Oz that Holden would run these

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by andy_b

c) is Eurosport going to pay

The usual fee...

Cheque's in the post... like those coupons on McDonald's containers in their Bingo games... nominal value 0.0001p

Don't just blow it all on fast cars and loose women, this time...

Save some for loose cars and fast women

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by awrb

for S2000 do you have to have a 2.0l version of the car you want ot enter, or can you just put a 2.0l engine in it?

There's no 2L version of the Vectra currently on sale, other than turbocharged so it would be the same situation for the Corsa.

[duke_toaster]

It looks like the Corsa is too small and the Insignia is too big (and homogolation problems). It seems like a UK S2000 Astra could be on the cards.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I read somewhere that the Corsa was looked at prior to the development of the Vectra. Given that the Insignia is apparently even bigger than the Vectra, a second look at the Corsa probably isn't out of the question

[Hazard]

The Vectra and the 320si have shown '3 box cars' can still be competitive, despite hatchback world seemingly being the way.

Another factor, as Martin's mentioned, the brand is sometimes key over the car. Sure they'd like to promote a model in production, but it's not vital if they're more likely to win with the previous model. They ran the Astra Coupé in 2004 despite the fact that the new Astra was out, and preferred to wait and develop the Sport Hatch model rather than the standard hatchback from '05.

The Insignia can't be considered to be much bigger than the 320si I reckon - it looks like it's going for that and the Mondeo market. Though I'd expect them to wait for that new Astra model in 2010 perhaps just to be ordinary?

Love the mock-ups though Andy. Fancy 'DTMing' the OPC? That's where I reckon (by reckon, mean hope!) they'd really put it

[Matt]

I still wanna see the Saturn version. :P

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Hazard

The Insignia can't be considered to be much bigger than the 320si I reckon - it looks like it's going for that and the Mondeo market.

Neither does the 159, but that one was deemed too heavy. To be honest I find the scenario where they run the Vectra for another year in 2009 and follow it up with an Astra in 2010 the most likely.

[Andrew Abbott]

I think that the mock-ups you've posted Andy don't show the full size of the Insignia very well, the angle and style makes them seem smaller. Nice pictures though.

It would be interesting to see works Insignias and private Vectra's in the BTCC next year.

[andy_b]

the angle was from a picture that Autoblog posted, so its in scale. A livery with logos and colour splits always breaks up the visual bulk of a car, so i think thats what it is.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by andy_b

(its not like SEAT and BMW where multiple chassis are built and sold across EU)

Maybe that's where they are going wrong? Could Triple Eight and Opel Sweden decide to club together to develop one car for 2010 and sell that to customers?

[werner]

It would be about time. I thought it was very odd that Opel Sweden got a engine-break, because otherwise they didn't get their engines to last a race, while in the UK, the same Vauxhall=engines where running reliable and very fast...

[Bramzel]

Yeh, seems a bit like the Peugeot UK vs. Germany situation from the nineties.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by werner

It would be about time. I thought it was very odd that Opel Sweden got a engine-break, because otherwise they didn't get their engines to last a race, while in the UK, the same Vauxhall=engines where running reliable and very fast...

Who dictates the branding used in the UK? If it's at GM level, would they consider running Chevrolet instead of Vauxhall to both promote a different brand and utilise the Lacetti?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Yeh, seems a bit like the Peugeot UK vs. Germany situation from the nineties.

Slightly different situation. In the 90's Peugeot Sport refused to supply Peugeot UK, as they were worried about their secrets getting into other hands.

When Opel Sweden brought the Astra from Triple Eight, Triple Eight not only offered to supply engines but pretty much insisted that Opel had to source the engines from them. Opel refused and developed their own engine. From what I've heard the chances of Triple Eight and Opel Sweden ever working together are pretty slim.

[duke_toaster]

Maybe if GM told Opel Team Sweden, Triple Eight and RML to get together, stop acting like four year olds and develop an Astra for all three series ... It wouldn't half cut development costs!

[Bramzel]

RML and Triple 8 are both developers. They won't work together, they're competitors in the industry.

[werner]

I don't thinks nor wisch that Chevy leaves the WTCC, to make room for Opel. They do a fine job, have some great drivers and a nice car. However that must not stop Opel/Vauxhall to develop a good car to be used in the UK and Sweden and to be sold to privateers anywhere in Europe. A Vectra/Insignia/Astra is a different car then a Lacetti. In the engine-department however some teamwork might be good. It's not that odd to see competitors work together. In the electronics-industrie it happens all the time that competitors work out a standard system together, i.e. blue ray-discs are developed by 94 company's

[FIRE]

Vauxhall rule out diesel move
Vauxhall have ruled out switching to diesel engines for next year's British Touring Car Championship, despite the recent domination of the TDI SEATs.

The newly re-crowned manufacturers' champions have won just one race since the mid-point of the season compared to SEAT's seven, and have seen their Vectras consistently 1-3mph slower through the speed traps at most circuits compared to the Leons.

But despite this, they will remain with petrol units next year, with Vauxhall motorsport chief Mike Nicholson saying that there would be no benefit for the company from switching units.
...

Full article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70262

Only question which car? Current Vectra, Astra or the new Insignia?

[awrb]

Doesn't say they'll build a new car. My bets with the vectra for next year.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by awrb

Doesn't say they'll build a new car. My bets with the vectra for next year.

But what the article does say is that their decisions on the direction they take in motorsport are based on increasing sales of cars. This would indicate that they would probably look at running something else other than the Vectra.

My money would be on the Astra at present.

[Alfa Fan]

I think it's fairly likely that they'll stick with the Vectra for one last year, before moving on to the Vectra replacement the Vauxhall Insignia. Given the success they've had with the larger Vectra and not the smaller Astra SH I think it's likely they'll continue to the use the larger car.

[Matt_S]

Ian Harrison earlier in the week:

"We have been looking at next year's car for the last two months, and we have a programme that will start the week after Brands Hatch for next year," he said. "It is a bit of an issue as we are running out of things to modify to make our car better as year on year you make improvements, but as for making the big jump we need to make, I'm not sure we can to be honest. It will be a challenge, but I honestly don't know if it is doable, I really don't.

"We have looked at the diesel route and frankly for Vauxhall, it isn't affordable. Vauxhall do very well in the passenger car market because they are careful about how they spend their money and they run their business very tight. It shows because they do well and are profitable. They can't just start to throw a million pounds at a diesel programme when there should be an equivalency mechanism in the championship which allows everyone to compete against each other whether you are running diesel, petrol, gas or whatever.

"You shouldn't have to go and spend millions of pounds just to compete, it shouldn't be like that."

Source: http://www.crash.net/news_view.asp?i...&cid=10&news=y

[stedevil]

I completely agree with Ian. But Im sure we will see increased limitations on the SEAT TDIs next year to make the grid more close. Currently the BTCC are a lot less strict vs the TDIs than they are in WTCC. It's understandable from the POV that the TDI is new in the BTCC this season (and lack of reliability has showed this...) but they wont be new next season.