The broad sunlit uplands of next March. Yeah, really. .

[grantp]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

You appear to have (deliberately?) overlooked the point that private industry directors actually create something of tangible value whereas EU bureaucrats create nothing of value whatsoever.

And in that connection one has to look at the earlier observation about projects "funded" by the EU. It's a bureuacracy not a creator.

Firstly the EU by itself, and so far as I know, does not generate and cash. It collects cash from member states takes a cut to pay itself and then redistributes some of the take back to teh member states. A few get back more than they put in. Others less than they put in - for a number of reasons not the least is that the EU management have taken a cut.

So in some countries the projects "funded" by the EU where probably funded by the country itself but taking into account the admin charge it would have cost more.

In addition the country will have taken that money as an "assistance" to their economy. Because it was available and so added to GDP in some way rather than because it was a worthwhile project. Hence empty roads and unused and even unfinished airports in Spain. Just a couple of examples - there must be many more.

Now they are only doing what "governments" do - but to have 2 National level sets of bureaucrats and politicians using the same pot of tax geld to promote their own vanity projects is hardly likely to be an effective use of available funds. Or rather - available tax take.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

..........

But here's a list of some items:
roaming charges has been mentioned and is possibly trivial,
workers rights (paid annual leave, maternity leave, sickness rights etc.) which are taken for granted. We had those before, one can make a case that recent changes have moved the balance too far in the employee's favour.
Erasmus for education, arguably just a jolly abroad and a brainwashing exercise
investment in research/universities etc, not if one is a net giver to the EU, could do more on our own
medicines, improvements in healthcare and the environment,
cheaper flights, how has the EU claimed to do this?
healthcare while you are in another eu country, is the EU really needed to to create/maintain EHIC?
lower prices for booze, rather goes against the aim of improved healthcare
safety, d/k
food labelling, d/k
EU wide patent & copyright protection, saves doing it in each country but hardly earth-shattering
lack of wars, Balkans? Ireland/NI? Turkey/Kurds, Ukraine? Basques? Corsica? Cod? EU ineffective and unecessary with UN and NATO

...........

From a UK standpoint very unconvincing

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by grantp

Why would anyone moderately competent wish to take a less certain career in politics? Unless they were avid narcissists or control freaks.

A question that has often puzzled me.......along with why so many of our politicians are so avidly supporting remaining in the EU, the chief objective of which, under "ever-closer union" is to render national governments increasingly irrelevant..........

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

A question that has often puzzled me.......along with why so many of our politicians are so avidly supporting remaining in the EU, the chief objective of which, under "ever-closer union" is to render national governments increasingly irrelevant..........

Perhaps because for the time being they can appear to have responsibility and power without having to have the skills to deploy either of them?

Plus the money is not bad if you factor in pensions and stuff and the opportunity to make 'contacts' for life after politics.

Better in the EU bureaucracies though, especially if you get to a senior grade.

[midgetman]

I give up. All we've done is rehash the referendum. What can we do in the sunlit uplands?


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[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I give up. All we've done is rehash the referendum. What can we do in the sunlit uplands?


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We won't know until after something happens - and that may or may not be the 29th March.

I suspect it was always going to be like that.

Maybe Viva's other half could come up with some special bakes to commemorate the moment.

How about a Brexit Fudge cake?

Or some sort of Dover Mess dessert?

Hard Cheese Pie?



In other thoughts ...

Perhaps the final terms of the deal (whether it has substance or not) could be settled by some sort of urinating contest as I seem to recall reading in a novel in the 60s. (The Carpetbaggers, Harold Robbins - should anyone be interested, though the term pre-dates the novel.).

It would seem to be a suitable approach to the shambles since nothing else is likely to make any better sense.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

You appear to have (deliberately?) overlooked the point that private industry directors actually create something of tangible value whereas EU bureaucrats create nothing of value whatsoever.

Agreed, MGD. And, directors who fail (except for those who work for banks) are generally sacked.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by bauble

A very special tax rate applies , Grant, and the list of 'allowances' goes on and on. Peter M suggests he is on an equal with many CEO's, and Captains of Industry, but what does he produce?

I love the videos on UTube of Juncker staggering around drunk as a lord, even while 'on-duty' so to speak, so I guess the wine is free - in more ways than one.

So at least we agree that EU salaries aren't tax free?

I don't think many of the CEO's captains of industry actually do any producing themselves either.

[gary396]

If you're ordering a Porsche in the UK you'll potentially need to stump up an extra 10% Brexit surcharge now:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...exit-surcharge

Luckily the Guardian has explained what 10% on top of £46,000 is.

[Peter Mallett]

Cheap at half the price.

[Mike Bell]

No problem- I’ve cancelled my order...

Maybe something British made by a British owned company instead. Oh, hang on.....

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

No problem- I’ve cancelled my order...

Maybe something British made by a British owned company instead. Oh, hang on.....

Well my Daf truck was built in England although Leyland Daf is American owned so we're half there, or maybe a third.

[Mike Bell]

Not good enough! The challenge is British made by British owned....

I thought Lotus but of course they’re Geely. BUT think I’m safe with a Morgan....

[grantp]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

So at least we agree that EU salaries aren't tax free?

I don't think many of the CEO's captains of industry actually do any producing themselves either.

I have a pal who works for an EU offshoot in Germany who tells me his salary is tax free. 6 figures, paid in euros. In terms of the grade scale for the organisation he's somewhere in the middle grades. His job is to run IT projects.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Not good enough! The challenge is British made by British owned....

I thought Lotus but of course they’re Geely. BUT think I’m safe with a Morgan....

Hmm.

This gets tricky.

I use photo editing software developed by a Danish operation that is currently owned by a British based investment company.

The software is freely downloadable for trials but usage is time limited unless on buys an activation key - basically a code of the type I guess we are all familiar with.

So would one have to pay extra duties for the string of characters?

[Tim Falce]

My wife has just informed me that there'll be no more Belgian buns if we crash out, looks like I may have to settle for buns from Chelsea from April onwards

[midgetman]

I see BMI are blaming Brexit uncertainty for their demise.....
.

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[Peter Mallett]

Body Mass Index?

[midgetman]

BBC News - Airline Flybmi ceases operations
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47267901

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[Peter Mallett]

It was dead or dying last year.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I see BMI are blaming Brexit uncertainty for their demise.....
.

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A good excuse isn't, one which will be used frequently for many many years to come, after all you can't really wheel out the Thatcher cop-out any more can you.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It was dead or dying last year.

I thought that was Flybe.

[Peter Mallett]

Nope

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by grantp

I thought that was Flybe.

flybe is close to 10 times the size of bmi and is attractive enough to be currently subject to a takeover bid from Virgin group.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

flybe is close to 10 times the size of bmi and is attractive enough to be currently subject to a takeover bid from Virgin group.

Yes, but at the back end of last year they were reported to be having some difficulties - hence the takeover bid from Virgin who might get some extra landing slots on the cheap. Somewhere.