Muscle Car Masters

[Formula 5000]

Gruncle,

I was a friend of Rob Shute's Dad, Neil. (Not the author). Rob had a green Lancer and updated to a white and red Mitsubishi Colt sponsored by the Mitsubishi place in Nunawading Victoria and shared with Ian Burrell of Supermini fame.

I have posted some photo's on Motorsportarchive and remember having some of the Colt at Winton. I'm still lookingfor them.
Rob worked in Melbourne for I think the State Govt maybe Stamp Duties office????

Keep searching and keep us updated. It is a very interesting saga but from my more than half a century of battles you are going to be struggling. Good luck.

[gruncle]

morning cornermsport,
I must say I like your creative use of the cabin/ cage attachment point,
Re the white falcon,
As I understand it, and it formed part of a letter from CAM$ to nick, that the car quote ( must have competed in some form of speed event for which it was elegible prior to the end of 1984 ) unquote

Hi david,
records were held by nick in his workshop which were totally destroyed in a massive fire which erupted in his building some 15 years ago.
The LCCA no longer exists, and all records have been, to put it simply, consigned to the rubbish bin. I have been unable to locate even the smallest paper trail from that club.

I have spent many hours going thru the car club records in the state library without success, and have written to CAM$ in July regarding this matter and have not received a reply as yet

I was one of the people who put their hand up when nick originally asked for evidential assistance some time ago, and I feel that CAMS$ are being totally unreasonable in their demands, and also the way they have carried out their investigations so far.

Nick can only hope that someone, somewhere can help in proving what we all know. That is that nick both built, and raced that white falcon in 1984

[Eurosnob]

Does anyone have some piccies?

I would like to see what this contentious beast looks like.

This is better than reading Who & New Idea - I'm loving it!

Good luck kicking against the pricks.

[Amonfan]

Gruncle, how about Auto Action from the dates he raced. They used to always cover the Club Races, usually a full page as well and as the Touring Car feilds were not large im sure hed be mentioned especially as it would have been something of a huge novelty to have a Group C XE rock up to a club meet against the usual Escorts, RX3s and XU1's even a L34 was somewhat modern for the Touring car class in those days

[Kerri]

Hey Gruncle, I just had a brain wave (well I hope so anyway).
The Sporting Car Club in Adelaide has one of the biggest and most extensive Motorsport libraries in the Southern Hemisphere and maybe further
May I refer you to this link http://www.planetsoftware.com.au/Dot....aspx?tabid=57
The contact details for the club are on that page & ask for Ian Smith who is the Librarian & a very knowledgeable fellow.
Worth a shot

ps- At the bottom of the page, there is a Library Research form, they charge a small fee too look for you but that may be an easier option. Good Luck mate.

[bathurst77]

I have a couple of pics of the "offending vehical" that i took at eastern creek muscle car masters.

I will post them over the weekend if people are interested.

Originally Posted by Eurosnob

Does anyone have some piccies?

I would like to see what this contentious beast looks like.

This is better than reading Who & New Idea - I'm loving it!

Good luck kicking against the pricks.

[johnny yuma]

WHO and NEW IDEA you got that right, this thread is sounding like a bunch of old sheilas gossiping and whinging about CAMS.Especially the poster who turns the S in CAMS into a $.I PIty CAMS having to deal with so many self made martyrs who are a legend in their own lunchtime . If an entrant cant prove authenticity why should CAMS be expected to?

[Kerri]

There's always one isn't there

[gruncle]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I have a couple of pics of the "offending vehical" that i took at eastern creek muscle car masters.

I will post them over the weekend if people are interested.

Hi bathurst 77,
would be very interested to see photos taken by you, as well as any others that are available. Sometimes these photos show car attitudes that are not normally evident to us down in the pits, and I have on occasions used them in setup. such as tyre pressure setting adjustments.

[bathurst77]

They are static garage shots only, sorry.

i will see if i can work out how to post them

[bathurst77]

lets see if this works

[bathurst77]

Im wondering if gruncle is inthat 2nd pic?

[miata]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Im wondering if gruncle is inthat 2nd pic?

The "Lunchtime Legend" himself!

[gruncle]

morning all,
I have been in the throes of moving my workshops and the communications carrier that I use has been a bit slow in installing the lines, so i have been out of touch for the last week.
A few things have happened on the white falcon front, and once I get my office up and running properly, I will fill you in.
Thanks for the emails and those two photos, and no, that isn't gruncle in that photo!!

[bathurst77]

I wonder why the XEs didnt have ESP/Ghia lights?
Might look meaner

[johnh875]

Look at the 1982 DJR Red Roo pics, they did at times

[gruncle]

Originally Posted by johnh875

Look at the 1982 DJR Red Roo pics, they did at times

The falcon XE model was homologated as a GL, with the ghia headlights and bonnet as an option, although the XE falcon police interceptor model was fitted with the ghia front.
The White falcon was actually built with the ghia front and lights and ran with them up until 1994 when replacement lights became too expensive. The car then reverted to the GL front.
The ghia front was used when Nick ran the falcon in the winton 24 hour races in the mid 90's

[Scott F]

Originally Posted by gruncle

morning cornermsport,
I must say I like your creative use of the cabin/ cage attachment point,
Re the white falcon,
As I understand it, and it formed part of a letter from CAM$ to nick, that the car quote ( must have competed in some form of speed event for which it was elegible prior to the end of 1984 ) unquote

Hi david,
records were held by nick in his workshop which were totally destroyed in a massive fire which erupted in his building some 15 years ago.
The LCCA no longer exists, and all records have been, to put it simply, consigned to the rubbish bin. I have been unable to locate even the smallest paper trail from that club.

I have spent many hours going thru the car club records in the state library without success, and have written to CAM$ in July regarding this matter and have not received a reply as yet

I was one of the people who put their hand up when nick originally asked for evidential assistance some time ago, and I feel that CAMS$ are being totally unreasonable in their demands, and also the way they have carried out their investigations so far.

Nick can only hope that someone, somewhere can help in proving what we all know. That is that nick both built, and raced that white falcon in 1984

I have been involved in this matter over the past 3-4 years and have supported Nick in submitting his application, however the rules state it must have a competition history, that is a Group C Competition history, Nick has not been able to provide evidence that the car ever competed in a Group C event, all he can confirm is that it competed in a number of speed events in the period. Given this and the rules as they stand it is therefore not eligible for a Group C CoD. My understanding is that the matter has been decided and this interpretation of the rules will stand. Nick could try to have the rules changed but I can't see that happening.

[Steve Holmes]

I've been following this thread with interest since it started. I can see why there are rules in place to protect those genuine Group C cars for historic competition. Historic Group C is a fantastic class, and its important that only genuine cars take part. But it seems that a total focus on enforcing the rules has lead to a situation where everyone seems to have forgotten why the rules were created in the first place................ to provide a place where genuine Group C cars can compete

I think Australia has one of the greatest Historic racing scenes in the world. But it seems to also have the strictest rules. I don't understand how a car built for Group C racing cannot be eligible for historic Group C, and considering there really weren't that many Group C cars built, and that many haven't survived, and that of the survivors, not all owners want to race them, shouldn't there be a bit more support for cars like the white Falcon?

After all, if a car was built for Group C competition, and remains true to that today, does it suddenly not become a Group C car because it didn't compete in Group C?

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by Steve Holmes

I've been following this thread with interest since it started. I can see why there are rules in place to protect those genuine Group C cars for historic competition. Historic Group C is a fantastic class, and its important that only genuine cars take part. But it seems that a total focus on enforcing the rules has lead to a situation where everyone seems to have forgotten why the rules were created in the first place................ to provide a place where genuine Group C cars can compete

I think Australia has one of the greatest Historic racing scenes in the world. But it seems to also have the strictest rules. I don't understand how a car built for Group C racing cannot be eligible for historic Group C, and considering there really weren't that many Group C cars built, and that many haven't survived, and that of the survivors, not all owners want to race them, shouldn't there be a bit more support for cars like the white Falcon?

After all, if a car was built for Group C competition, and remains true to that today, does it suddenly not become a Group C car because it didn't compete in Group C?

Totally agree.

[gruncle]

Thank you steve and Camaroz,
The white falcon was built as a Group C car, Races as group C car, Has a group C logbook,Has undergone every examination that the historic commission can dream up and passed them all, yet cannot run in historic meetings cos it might upset the p****y gentleman racers in their powered by money toys.
It would not hurt so much if they came out and said it, that they are afraid of the car and the team, but no, they hide behind technicalities to try and stop it running.
Well they have succeeded in their methods, The team owner has withdrawn any involvement with the group C association, and requested that all mention of the car and photos of it on their website be removed.

The white falcon Will run only in events, such as The Touring Car Festival, the Muscle Car Masters,and any AASA event that is offered, that is if the American trip does not occur. and survive the current thinking to be Stripped of all major components and consigned to the crusher, which is just next door.

Let us see if the gentleman racers with their tubbed body cars, their stroker engines, their dodgy inlet manifolds are game enough to come out and RACE

[Shiney]

Originally Posted by Steve Holmes

I don't understand how a car built for Group C racing cannot be eligible for historic Group C, and considering there really weren't that many Group C cars built, and that many haven't survived, and that of the survivors, not all owners want to race them,

Not to mention the fact that more of these rare and increasingly valuble race cars will be destroyed in the current series. From the latest newsletter from Group C website you have Dean Hows Torana "appearing repairable". It sounds like it wouldn't have taken much more of a hit for it to "appear writeoffable".(I know thats not a word but it was all that came to mind!)
I am still sitting on the fence when it comes to replicas, but Cams should at least allow any car built to race Group C / A onto the track.

[gruncle]

Originally Posted by Shiney

Not to mention the fact that more of these rare and increasingly valuble race cars will be destroyed in the current series. From the latest newsletter from Group C website you have Dean Hows Torana "appearing repairable". It sounds like it wouldn't have taken much more of a hit for it to "appear writeoffable".(I know thats not a word but it was all that came to mind!)
I am still sitting on the fence when it comes to replicas, but Cams should at least allow any car built to race Group C / A onto the track.

These cars are just pieces of tin,built to be hurled around a piece of bitumen faster than anyone else's. as to being valuable, they are only valuable to the people who think that way. Otherwise they are just a tool to be used.
As for Deans car, It can be fixed to run again, if he wants to do it.

[p&g racing]

Originally Posted by Scott F

I have been involved in this matter over the past 3-4 years and have supported Nick in submitting his application, however the rules state it must have a competition history, that is a Group C Competition history, Nick has not been able to provide evidence that the car ever competed in a Group C event, all he can confirm is that it competed in a number of speed events in the period. Given this and the rules as they stand it is therefore not eligible for a Group C CoD. My understanding is that the matter has been decided and this interpretation of the rules will stand. Nick could try to have the rules changed but I can't see that happening.

Hi Scott I thought that if you built a car to a set of rules the car should be ok for that class. So nick built a group C if he didn't have the funds to run the car that shouldn't matter. Just say i built a improved production and couldn't run it would that make it not a improved production car?

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by Shiney

I am still sitting on the fence when it comes to replicas, but Cams should at least allow any car built to race Group C / A onto the track.

I'm just playing devils' advocate here, but does that mean that if I buy a 1982 Torana tomorrow and follow the Group C rules, I can build and race it in Group C races? It would be a replica (Group N is the place to find replicas not Group A/C) and if not, then when do you draw the line, cars built within 1 yr of the class ending? 3 yrs of the class ending? 10 yrs of the class ending.