Please may I have a rant.

[JimW]

First of all, apologies to all those to whom this does not apply.

And to all those to whom it does apply, I'm smiling as I say it.

But why the can't some marshals remember to turn off the electrics on a car as the first thing they do?

While I spend time as observer and course marshal, I probably do more days as rescue unit crew. I loose count of the number of times we arrive at an incident and find the master switch still ON.

People, this is one of the most useful things which a marshal can do unless the thing is actually burning. It provides fire prevention, helps fire extinguishing and avoids the rescue crew cutting through live wiring.

Don't ask the driver to do it, don't assume that they have done it; do it yourself.

If an incident involves calling for a rescue unit, good practice would include whoever is talking to the crew leader including the fact that the electrics are off. (Or not if the car is to one of those international formulae which incorporate the electrics with the extinguisher.)

<rant off>

Regards

Jim

[thepits!]

JimW - nice rant - shouldn't be needed though if they ("some marshals") had listened at their training day(s)

so........ here's your other thread as a hint!

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69591

[The Fat Clerk]

Fair point Jim. I had a case today @ Mallory, where I was Observer/I.O etc etc @ Post 12. Car failed on the grid, once the pack had gone Elaine & I pushed it onto the grass up against the armco opposite to Race Control, I said to the Driver "Have you turned the electrics off?" to which he replied "How do I do that?" Needless to say, he went back down & did it.

[Hepatic]

They'll be asking what are those funny 3 pedals things are for next....

[blackx]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Fair point Jim. I had a case today @ Mallory, where I was Observer/I.O etc etc @ Post 12. Car failed on the grid, once the pack had gone Elaine & I pushed it onto the grass up against the armco opposite to Race Control, I said to the Driver "Have you turned the electrics off?" to which he replied "How do I do that?" Needless to say, he went back down & did it.

Almost as silly as getting sent to an incident at post 8 when the actuall incident was at post 4

None the less......I can understand where Jim is coming from ..

[icklimp]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Fair point Jim. I had a case today @ Mallory, where I was Observer/I.O etc etc @ Post 12. Car failed on the grid, once the pack had gone Elaine & I pushed it onto the grass up against the armco opposite to Race Control, I said to the Driver "Have you turned the electrics off?" to which he replied "How do I do that?" Needless to say, he went back down & did it.

Fat Clerk - Now I can put names to faces

Was a bit wet as well wasn't it!

Blackx - sorry I didn't get a chance to say hi - will catch up with you at prescott.

[blackx]

Originally Posted by icklimp

Fat Clerk - Now I can put names to faces

Was a bit wet as well wasn't it!

Blackx - sorry I didn't get a chance to say hi - will catch up with you at prescott.

Looking forward to it already....

[blackhands]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Fair point Jim. I had a case today @ Mallory, where I was Observer/I.O etc etc @ Post 12. Car failed on the grid, once the pack had gone Elaine & I pushed it onto the grass up against the armco opposite to Race Control, I said to the Driver "Have you turned the electrics off?" to which he replied "How do I do that?" Needless to say, he went back down & did it.

I first joined the VSCC 40 years ago and there were more people like that then - ie those who had a little man to do everything. Comment about the pedals is probably quite true as thre is a greater combination of pedal function in vintage cars than nowadays.

[PenelopePitstop]

They'll be asking what are those funny 3 pedals things are for next....

I have always wondered what the one in middle did!

[CombeMarshal]

But just how essential is it if say the car just ran out of petrol?!?!
Or lost it's Battery!!!!

[blackx]

Originally Posted by CombeMarshal

But just how essential is it if say the car just ran out of petrol?!?!
Or lost it's Battery!!!!

Having run out of petrol does not detract from the importance of turning of the electrics..
There is still the risk of an electric shock even though there is no fuel in it.....Although there is still a risk of fire as items such as fuel pumps etc will still contain a small amount of fuel even if its not enough to fuel the vehicle.

A great amount of vehicles running with electronic ignition can give a nasty kick even though the initial voltage is low the current is quite high in some cases.

Obviously if the battery is no longer there then the need for electrics to be isolated is no so great but.......Have you ever encountered a vehicle with more than one battery?.........I have seen it...

[Pike]

The electrics (IMHO) should always always always and always again be turned off if the car has stopped for whatever reason. Another point to bear in mind is in a big impact the cable connecting external isolator switches can snap so it does nothing. Worth checking in these cases by flicking windscreen wipers/lights etc on and/or turning the internal isolator off.

[JLD]

Originally Posted by CombeMarshal

But just how essential is it if say the car just ran out of petrol?!?!

The remaining fuel/air mix in the tank will be dangerous. A sigle spark could ignite this.

[Stone-kicker]

Another point to bear in mind is in a big impact the cable connecting external isolator switches can snap so it does nothing.

Surely if the cable has snapped, the battery will be effectively isolated?

[Pike]

No stone-kicker, I once isolated (or so I thought) the electrics, then proceeded to get into said car to do a snatch on it and turned the windscreen wipers on as I got in!! They soon stopped when I did the cut-off in the car though. Unless the cut off cable has been pulled in the correct manner it will still be on, all to do with routing of the cable, impact upon car etc

[Woolley]

I think Pike means that you can pull the cable but have no effect on the battery end if the cable has broken between it and the pull handle. Personally I just look for any lights, dash display, etc that were on and now aren't (well, I always intend to) rather than trying to operate any switches.

I always ask the driver to do it if I can. He should know how (and will tell me if not), and it's a reasonable check on whether he's reasonably alert too. Plus if he left the car in the gravel, I'd rather he did the walking than me. Finally, if it turns out to be a combined switch, he pulled it, not me!

Relevent-ish question. Why have FBMW gone back to combined switch on the roll hoop? I know there's another kill switch inside the rear sidepod, but if it's leaking fluid, got hot brakes or tyres and is damaged, I'm not intending to put my hand inside to try to get to it.

[gravel_monkey]

can i have a little rant here, i know many events come up short on marshalls but rally goes into a whole new thing. at the prom rally last weekend a whole bunch of enthusiastic locals turned up to marshall, excellent i thought more people if something goes wrong. during the second stage an imprezza blew up big time just before a marshall point and ground to a halt smoking away no more than 75 yards from some of the locals who were marshalling. what did they do as the driver and co-driver bailed out because they thought they were on fire.................nothing, about five of them stood and watched and then watched the driver and co-driver try and push the car back to the marshalls point w-d on a live stage!!!!!!!!!! a marshall from an opposite post decided to take charge in the end and had cross the track to sort it out and only when he got to the car did the enthusiastic locals attempt to wander down the course. now i know they are not used to marshalling but lets be honest a lot of the time common sense is enough to get through and none of that was shown....... sorry to have a rant but it bugged me!!!!!!

[EvilPumpkin]

Hi folks,

Just a note - we do have a rant tag if you really want to rant. Simply type [.rant] to start and [./rant] to finish (remove the full stops)



oh and back on topic, I didn't pull the electrics on a BMW on Sunday. Why? The electrics switch is located inside the side pod which was spewing smoke and I decided I really didn't want to stick my hands in there even with my gloves on.

[Stone-kicker]

Unless the cut off cable has been pulled in the correct manner it will still be on, all to do with routing of the cable, impact upon car etc

Ah! By "cable" I thought you meant "electric cable" not the bit of string between the switch on the outside and the one on the inside.

[Pike]

Depends how big you are Woolley - some of us operate switches without even knowing it

Sorry to clarify I did mean the bit of string that connects switch to battery.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally Posted by CombeMarshal

But just how essential is it if say the car just ran out of petrol?!?!

How do you know that it has run out of petrol?

I saw a car once that coughted and sputtered to a halt in front of two marshals. They ran to it, without bottles, only to find out that the ENGINE had indeed run-out of go-go juice. Unfortunately, the tank and the fuel-pump, sadly no longer connected to the engine in any way, had NOT !!
Needless to say, they looked very sheepish as my partner and I extiguished the resulting blaze with THEIR bottles !!

(Hint: never take a bottle if you are going to have to run past another one).

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Stuart Hill

(Hint: never take a bottle if you are going to have to run past another one).

Hint: ALWAYS take a bottle, that way if you run past one and your bottle doesn't work then you don't have to run ALL the way back to get a spare.

[chezza]

There is always a problem...you tend to take a blue/powder bottle with you...we had issues at the weekend when one of the marshals had to run back and then took ages to find a white/foam to cover the pouring fuel with...and nobody had pulled the electics on it!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

Hint: ALWAYS take a bottle, that way if you run past one and your bottle doesn't work then you don't have to run ALL the way back to get a spare.

Hopefully, in the 'perfect world', you woudn't need another as the first would work. If however, it didn't, then surely your "back-up" would have one thereby saving you a trip. but then........................

maybe none of them work and you're in the smelly stuff!! this could go on forever like the chicken and the egg.

I was always taught, and still suggest, use what ever route will get a bottle to the incident quickest. Start worrying about failures if and when they happen.

Do the best you can and hope that both the equipment and fellow marshals do likewise. You can not do anymore beyond your best.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Stuart Hill

maybe none of them work and you're in the smelly stuff!! .

Like the occasion at one circuit that shall remain nameless (all this is 'allegedly' as it's only what I heard afterwards). The TV crew built their platform on top of the box that contained the extinguishers. The post was re-supplied with spares from the pitlane. Unfortunately they were from the pile of bottles to be refilled. Not much of the car made it back to the pits...