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Old 16 Mar 2018, 00:41 (Ref:3808256)   #31
carbsmith
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carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!
Did IMSA's technical department forget they didn't make LMP2 a separate class? This is worse than 2014.
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 01:00 (Ref:3808260)   #32
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It's practice dude.
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 01:14 (Ref:3808261)   #33
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carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!
Are you expecting the entire LMP2 field to suddenly speed up 1.5s when it becomes not practice?
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 01:46 (Ref:3808262)   #34
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Purist is going for a new lap record!Purist is going for a new lap record!Purist is going for a new lap record!Purist is going for a new lap record!Purist is going for a new lap record!Purist is going for a new lap record!
It's not that simple.

1. Two of the practices have been cut slightly short. Now, this might mainly have been a benefit to the times of the teams already at the top, but we don't know that.

2. The manufacturer DPIs are piloted by works-selected, all-pro lineups. The newcomers from PC don't necessarily have the depth in their driving pool, though CORE does look to have a rather nice slate there with Braun and Dumas.

3. Except for the #52 and #99 (formerly the #85), these are new teams in the class having to figure out the full-on LMP2 equipment. And these are privateers, not works-backed efforts. But I must add, the top European teams (UA, DC/JC/Jota, Rebellion) have shown that the cars can compete on pace.

As for relative pace, you'd expect the DPI teams to pull back more from their ultimate pace in the race, unless there's a pressing reason to court their qualifying times.

Now, how many people honestly expected Mazda to hold down the top two spots on the time sheets in Practice 3?
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 03:21 (Ref:3808271)   #35
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cbbrit should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcbbrit should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Night Practice 3 notes:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/ra...ight-practice/

And results:

http://results.imsa.com/Results/18_2...03_Results.PDF
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 03:33 (Ref:3808272)   #36
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JC DCR and Rebellion were 3/4s+ out to lunch at Daytona too. United Autosport is absolutely nowhere this weekend, they've been 8th, 14th, and 13th around 2 seconds off even though this should be a better track for the Ligier.

I'm tired of reading that damn argument anyways though, because it doesn't matter. DPi shouldn't be noticeably faster than LMP2 under anything but the most extreme circumstances, because however good the best LMP2 car is, that's how fast they're supposed to be. LMP2 is the baseline for DPi, not vice versa. If they had computer models that could somehow tell them an ELMS championship caliber team should be mired in the bottom half of the field reliably they wouldn't be changing BoP every weekend.
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 04:37 (Ref:3808276)   #37
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It still doesn't get you around driver lineups, getting to know the machinery, and let's face it, how many of those LMP2 teams are going to be able to put together a setup notebook like a Penske, Joest, or GM?

And if you hammer too hard on the BoP, the manufacturers will leave, and there goes the commercial viability of the class. Or to borrow and example from PWC, K-PAX said they couldn't make the required BoP on the McLarens work at Miller, and so they pulled out of the event. I point this out because there are inherent performance differences between the various works engines and the Gibson. You can do what you like, but without totally strangling it, you're not going to eliminate the torque advantage of the Cadillac, for instance, which means trying to tweak somewhere else. There's no guarantee thoug that it will be enough.

Thinking about computer simulations, when CART went to Mexico City in 2002, the models said most of the Esses would be 2nd/3rd gear, not 4th/5th gear. And again, the hardest part to predict is the human element, how much impact the driver will have. The model may say that the car will theoretically do one thing, but...

And I want the straight LMP2s to be competitive, but it's unreasonable to just hand it to them. There's also going to be some inherent performance loss, which doesn't show up in the power/torque curves, because the Gibson engine package is less optimized, because it has to be compatible with all four chasses. Cadillac, Mazda, Acura, and Nissan don't have to worry about that. It could also have an oversized affect at a track like Sebring. If the works cars are simply stiffer than the LMP2s due to that more optimized packaging, this could allow them, for instance, to run lower ride heights than the LMP2s can. (If the car is stiffer, while a given hit might come off as harder, the behavior of the car over bumps will be more predictable.)

I could also point out that around a 1:40 lap, one second is just 1%, and I wouldn't count on getting closer than that with a computer model. (I hesitate to ask what your response is to the "spaghetti diagrams" they show with the hurricane forecasts.)
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 04:45 (Ref:3808277)   #38
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We all know they'll hand OEMs the winning bops for these big endurance races because that's what matters to them, then let the stock P2s win [some of the] the lesser races so that they stick around for additional seasons.

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Now, how many people honestly expected Mazda to hold down the top two spots on the time sheets in Practice 3?
Well ummm

Mazda’s RT24-P is the only beneficiary from the BoP changes, with the Multimatic-built prototype receiving a 2-liter increase in fuel and aero adjustments to its rear wing.

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And I want the straight LMP2s to be competitive, but it's unreasonable to just hand it to them.
But it is reasonable to keep handing Riley-Mazdas more and more stuff every race because they're crappier than the others?
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 05:09 (Ref:3808280)   #39
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1. If they're so crappy, why would anyone expect them to lead any session? I think you answered your own question there.

2. Did I even bring up the Mazda-specific BoP? Again, if they're as crappy as you say, why would anyone expect it to make a difference?

3. I didn't denote any favorites in my posts, so what was your point?

Sorry, but I'm not operating on enough sleep for this. It's just a bit much when I didn't bring the thing up, and you criticize for something I didn't say, and all the while, you're the one dumping on it.

Hopefully, we'll see a smaller spread in some of the times come tomorrow's sessions.
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 06:54 (Ref:3808283)   #40
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If someone builds a DPi that's incapable of being BoP'd down to LMP2 performance, they never should have had the car approved for homologation in the first place. It's almost laughable to think a DPi with a parts bin engine would be stiffer or better optimized than an LMP2 with a purpose built Gibson either (rather we know they're mostly horrendously overweight and by extension off balance, and would presumably require either higher ride heights or stiffer springs), you know they have to actually run those cars against three other chassis without any BoP, right?

Why would Penske have better data when their car configuration is brand new and they haven't raced Sebring in a decade while CORE is using one that's run this race before with multiple chassis and has been pounding around with three cars year after year? Nevermind their lead driver was driving for Penske last time they were there. For that matter if experience is so important what would make Castroneves better than Romain Dumas and Colin Braun when Helio has barely any mileage on half the track while they have thousands of laps?

I really don't know why you're telling me how inaccurate computer models are when my point was about computer models not being accurate enough to ignore real data, which in this case is whatever lap times they actually turn during timed sessions. If an LMP2 team comes along that's 1s faster than every single team that's raced in IMSA this year, then you can change the BoP but for now this is reality.
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 12:46 (Ref:3808315)   #41
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kvenom should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkvenom should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
At least Mazda might be at the front when they decide to catch fire.
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 13:05 (Ref:3808317)   #42
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Damian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Last practice before qualy. Some teams were pushing with one of the cars.

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Old 16 Mar 2018, 13:07 (Ref:3808318)   #43
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Interestingly imsa.tv is showing the practive right now (just ended though), with comms too. It is not on the broadcast schedule. They could be just testing something before the support events start today.

https://imsatv.imsa.com
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 13:14 (Ref:3808319)   #44
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Damian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well, our fear about Cadillac has ended, now we should be worried about Acura cars.

Best Sector Times shows the Acura a second faster than the Nissan. Let's see on the qualy.
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 14:43 (Ref:3808345)   #45
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cbbrit should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcbbrit should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Practice 4 details this morning:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/ac...-4-at-sebring/

And results:

http://results.imsa.com/Results/18_2...03_Results.PDF
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