V8ST - 2014

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Mark

you already know the difference in times between V8ST and TLX - in fact it appears to be really important to you.

comparing the two is like apples and oranges

It puzzles me why you continue with this sort of thing - both classes are very separately in both construction, brake package, suspension and engine

Bit like comparing Formula Ford with Formula First.

yes the V8ST is faster - and so it should be - but does speed make it the best - after the display at Highlands with only 9 cars finally running - I do not think so

Both Touring Car groups are struggling and I have yet to see a workable solution for either of them.

In one sense you are correct, however, in context with the central issue, when we the V8ST owners and supporters of these cars get none other than the President of MSNZ, Shayne Harris, saying publically "how competitive the new NZV8's are this summer breaking race records up and down the country" then obviously lap times are clearly a focus for most race fans, myself included.

I believe I proposed a "workable solution" to combine the two with the suggestion that they both run in the same race, each to their own rule book and start were they qualify, as did the Porsche 997 and 996 car did for their National Championship.

Do you not think thats a workable solution?

[promax]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Mark

you already know the difference in times between V8ST and TLX - in fact it appears to be really important to you.

comparing the two is like apples and oranges

It puzzles me why you continue with this sort of thing - both classes are very separately in both construction, brake package, suspension and engine

Bit like comparing Formula Ford with Formula First.

yes the V8ST is faster - and so it should be - but does speed make it the best - after the display at Highlands with only 9 cars finally running - I do not think so

Both Touring Car groups are struggling and I have yet to see a workable solution for either of them.

I'm picking a TRS car will be the fastest car at this meeting Do I win a prize?

[promax]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

In one sense you are correct, however, in context with the central issue, when we the V8ST owners and supporters of these cars get none other than the President of MSNZ, Shayne Harris, saying publically "how competitive the new NZV8's are this summer breaking race records up and down the country" then obviously lap times are clearly a focus for most race fans, myself included.

I believe I proposed a "workable solution" to combine the two with the suggestion that they both run in the same race, each to their own rule book and start were they qualify, as did the Porsche 997 and 996 car did for their National Championship.

Do you not think thats a workable solution?

V8ST did the same thing when promoting the prototype I could repost all the old articles. . but honestly. . who cares? This ****ing match has gone on for way too long.

[bluespur]

Mark - it is only 'workable' if both parties wish it to be - do not think that is the case and we simply do not have sufficient data storage to go through all the relative issues

both camps have made their bed

I agree with promax

[Goat Boy]

It's been said many times that there is not room in NZ for two near identical (to the public eye anyway) V8 Touring Car series. I've had a look at the Manfeild schedule and it seems fair to both camps, but the day is finished up by the NZV8's on both days - also fair enough since they used to do that with SC in Hamiltron.

But I wonder whether the public will be a bit over seeing lots of Falcodores by that time?

Interestingly, Race 3 for the NZV8's is a standing start. I have never seen that in NZV8 and I have been told on many occasions that the TL's are not built for it - how has this changed, or was that all just so much waffle?

[Goat Boy]

Also, can I ask:

1. Why there are only 14 ST's going to Manfeild? That is down from 22 at the max at the end of the first season.

2. Is that going to be the size of the field this season (Foggy excepted) or are some just getting finances in order?

3. Is there still a penalty for missing a round or has that changed now the series has been sanctioned?

4. Are there any new players on the horizon?

As an ST supporter I would like to see full grids again, so I am interested to know the whys and wherefores.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Mark - it is only 'workable' if both parties wish it to be - do not think that is the case and we simply do not have sufficient data storage to go through all the relative issues

both camps have made their bed

I agree with promax

Why cant we just get some HP parity throw the TLX and STs together we might all be surprised and get some bloody good racing.

So what are the advantages:
1. It would end the biggest debacle in NZ Motorsport history.
2. The event promoters would get better fields which should bring the crowds
back.
3. The competitors will have more chance of getting sponsors back on board, less
cars with blank spaces on them.
4. HP parity may take some of the stress off the STs and keep their costs down.

The 2 classes are here we cant go back so park the egos in the trailer park and go motor racing.

I may be over simplistic. But I'm sure it can be done.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

It's been said many times that there is not room in NZ for two near identical (to the public eye anyway) V8 Touring Car series. I've had a look at the Manfeild schedule and it seems fair to both camps, but the day is finished up by the NZV8's on both days - also fair enough since they used to do that with SC in Hamiltron.

But I wonder whether the public will be a bit over seeing lots of Falcodores by that time?

Interestingly, Race 3 for the NZV8's is a standing start. I have never seen that in NZV8 and I have been told on many occasions that the TL's are not built for it - how has this changed, or was that all just so much waffle?

NZV8's were over 2 days in Timaru and had 1 standing start race

[Sidewayz]

[QUOTE=Interestingly, Race 3 for the NZV8's is a standing start. I have never seen that in NZV8 and I have been told on many occasions that the TL's are not built for it - how has this changed, or was that all just so much waffle?[/QUOTE]

Standing starts have been in play since last season GB. Maybe if you watch some coverage you may have something different to say about the class..... Or maybe not. At least you'll know about their race formats.

[bluespur]

Bill you are being very simplistic

you are right there is an ability to play the HP parity and it has been proven to work - well it is in the TLX camp

the major issue as I see it is that V8ST is a commercial operation with some form of owner/entrant liabilities - NZV8TC is a group of guys who have built cars to a schedule and race as any other sporting class.

It is getting the two approaches to work together on a common set of rules would be difficult - easy enough to get the sporting rules in place but I would think the commercial approach as the major hurdle - no-one has really addressed that issue

GoatBoy- NZV8s have had standing starts for their Race three since the beginning of last season. TL cars appear to be handling it OK - Had they not been able to then they would have gotten get rid of it at the beginning of this one.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Bill you are being very simplistic

you are right there is an ability to play the HP parity and it has been proven to work - well it is in the TLX camp

the major issue as I see it is that V8ST is a commercial operation with some form of owner/entrant liabilities - NZV8TC is a group of guys who have built cars to a schedule and race as any other sporting class.

It is getting the two approaches to work together on a common set of rules would be difficult - easy enough to get the sporting rules in place but I would think the commercial approach as the major hurdle - no-one has really addressed that issue

GoatBoy- NZV8s have had standing starts for their Race three since the beginning of last season. TL cars appear to be handling it OK - Had they not been able to then they would have gotten get rid of it at the beginning of this one.

What really concerns me is can ST's survive as a commercial operation.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Sidewayz

Standing starts have been in play since last season GB. Maybe if you watch some coverage you may have something different to say about the class..... Or maybe not. At least you'll know about their race formats.

My question, Mr Short, was (slightly re-phrased) "what if anything has changed that the TL's are now able to do standing starts when they apparently could not before?" You have therefore not answered my question.

I have not been watching the NZV8 coverage because it has not, and still does not interest me. But I was a big fan back in the days when we had 30 car fields and were all one happy(??) family. But that was a while ago now.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Bill you are being very simplistic

you are right there is an ability to play the HP parity and it has been proven to work - well it is in the TLX camp

the major issue as I see it is that V8ST is a commercial operation with some form of owner/entrant liabilities - NZV8TC is a group of guys who have built cars to a schedule and race as any other sporting class.

It is getting the two approaches to work together on a common set of rules would be difficult - easy enough to get the sporting rules in place but I would think the commercial approach as the major hurdle - no-one has really addressed that issue

GoatBoy- NZV8s have had standing starts for their Race three since the beginning of last season. TL cars appear to be handling it OK - Had they not been able to then they would have gotten get rid of it at the beginning of this one.

Agree with your comments. I guess maybe the TL's could always handle the standing starts - I have always preferred them TBH.

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

But I wonder whether the public will be a bit over seeing lots of Falcodores by that time?

Falcadorotas?

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

Falcadorotas?

If we get a fourth marque (rumoured), will we then have Falcadorotasans?(MRX, care to comment?)

[KRDG]

[QUOTE=Bill Brown;3363878]

I may be over simplistic. QUOTE]


I simply have to agree.

[MRXtreme]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

If we get a fourth marque (rumoured), will we then have Falcadorotasans?(MRX, care to comment?)

No rumor, fact. The chassis has been sitting idle 75% complete waiting for the Altima to be launched in NZ so we can sort panel mounting points. I spent sometime up at my local Nissan deal last week sorting the list of parts needed. Hopefully 2-3 weeks we should see lots of cardboard with big red letters on it arrive.
I would post the Altima concept art, but figure out how...!

Cheers
Nick

[mikuni]

We're a very different country to Australia, aren't we..

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by MRXtreme

No rumor, fact. The chassis has been sitting idle 75% complete waiting for the Altima to be launched in NZ so we can sort panel mounting points.

Great news, that will be very interesting to watch develop. Post those bits on your Facebook page if you like, I think we can all find them there.

[MRXtreme]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Great news, that will be very interesting to watch develop. Post those bits on your Facebook page if you like, I think we can all find them there.

Mate, the art has been there for weeks.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by MRXtreme

Mate, the art has been there for weeks.

I gave up trying to find you on Facebook, but I found the image on your website. Why a completely new build when he could change the panels and engine in his Commodore after this season ends?

[MRXtreme]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

I gave up trying to find you on Facebook, but I found the image on your website. Why a completely new build when he could change the panels and engine in his Commodore after this season ends?

[url]Www.facebook.com/MitchellRaceXtreme
Nick could do that, but I believe Nick is doing his part for the class by building another car for the TLX grid. And good on him too!
Some people out there aren't in a position to build there own car and are looking to buy or lease an existing car. Those people are all ready asking about Nicks Holden.

Cheers
Nick.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by MRXtreme

[url]Www.facebook.com/MitchellRaceXtreme

That explains it, I was searching under MRX. Thanks.

[onza]

Isnt this a supertourer forum....

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by onza

Isnt this a supertourer forum....

Well yes it is, but there hasn't really been much specific V8ST chat for a while has there. Considering there is often an overlap of the two V8 classes in discussions, I don't see an issue, do you? Perhaps you might like to add some fresh perspective if you're not happy with the current banter.