Indy Car tangents unlimited

[Tim Northcutt]

As a freshman in High school, I was at the 1973 Indy 500 in the infield in the turn where he crashed....

I watched him burn in the aftermath of that accident....he died from those injuries some months later.....

I'll never forget witnessing that horrible accidnet and the aftermath....

Following that race, USAC reduced the amount of fuel that the cars carried on-board from 70 gallons to 45 gallons....

If I remember correctly, many of the teams filled the tank on the right side of the car (they were in the sidepod areas of the chassis) with those styrofoam "peanuts" that people use for packing material....

It wasn't until late that the fuel tanks were placed behind the drivers to protect them from impact

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
I watched him burn in the aftermath of that accident....he died from those injuries some months later.....

As far as I know, it was a hospital-acquired infection that killed him.

[jhansen]

Are you excluding current drivers Tim? If not Tony Stewart and Robby Gordon should be on that list. And Paul Tracy. Think of those three guys. A real chance none of that three will win the big one.

Of ones that appear to be done I can think of Scott Goodyear and Davey Hamilton.

[rustyfan]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
As far as I know, it was a hospital-acquired infection that killed him.

He died a month after the crash, after his kidneys had failed, from pneumonia.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by jhansen
Are you excluding current drivers Tim? If not Tony Stewart and Robby Gordon should be on that list. And Paul Tracy. Think of those three guys. A real chance none of that three will win the big one.

Of ones that appear to be done I can think of Scott Goodyear and Davey Hamilton.

I am considering everybody....Robby Gordon & Tony Stewart would be on that list as well....

But to be honest, I was in Turn 3 in 2002....and I am virtually certain that Tracy passed Helio before the Yellow came on....so although his face is not on the Borg-Warner Trophy, in my mind, Paul Tracy was the 2002 Indy 500 Winner....

Goodyear would make the list I guess, because he had that close 2nd place and if he wouldn't have passed the pace car, he would have won in 1995...

Hamilton would be a consideration due to his steady career in IRL and his superb record in Super Modifieds....


Question:

I don't recall whether Hamilton ever won an IRL race....

Did he???

[Kicking-back]

No

[rustyfan]

[disclaimer]The following might ruffle some feathers, but I want to make clear that this is just my personal opinion on the 2002 Indy 500 - it's not intended as a flame bait and I believe I have the right to express my opinion the way I see it.[/disclaimer]

Now...

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
But to be honest, I was in Turn 3 in 2002....and I am virtually certain that Tracy passed Helio before the Yellow came on....so although his face is not on the Borg-Warner Trophy, in my mind, Paul Tracy was the 2002 Indy 500 Winner....

In my opinion, he isn't. And the whole yellow-light issue is, really, a moot point.

Now stay with me here. First off, I'm going by what I saw on TV, and what I saw was Tracy closing in on Castroneves - but not passing him - when the TV producer cut to the scene of the two-car crash with the cars already well and truly planted in the wall, sliding along.

Did I see when the caution light came on? No, I didn't (the TV view didn't exactly show the lights very well), but should Tracy have been awarded the win just because someone in the control tower was a bit slow turning on the yellow light when the crash was already several seconds old? And how do we know Castroneves spotter didn't tell Helio there was a crash (perhaps the spotter saw it real early - who knows?), leading to Castroneves easing off just a bit because he know there is no racing back to the flag (enforced by the fact that Tracy came back to the line a long time before Helio did - just as if Helio had slowed down while Tracy didn't) and he was expecting the caution light to come on right away?

Shouldn't the fact that there was a potentially life threatening crash mean more than at what exact moment the caution light came on? The reason for the caution had already happened - isn't that what should count?

No, Tracy did not win the 2002 Indianapolis 500 - Helio Castroneves did - and by doing the crying he, Tracy, did, rather than taking it like a man and returning the next year to try and win it the proper way, I lost much of the respect I had for him.

That's my take on the 2002 farce. I know lots of people won't agree with me, but that's ok - everyone's entitled to an opinion, and the above just happens to be mine

[Tim Northcutt]

Points well-made, rustyfan....

The crash took place outside of Turn 2, if I remember correctly....

I was too focused on what was shaping up to be a great battle right in front of me....

So your points could very well be correct and thus, my thoughts should be reconsidered in that context....

I will say that after Mario lost the 1981 race in Court (when they gave the victory back to Unser -- please look on the Champ Car Forum at "indy 500 memories"...it take stoo long to explain it if you didn't see it...) that Mario took it loke a man....and didn't whine...

and Little All applauded Emmo in 1989 after Emmo put him into the 3rd turn wall on the last lap....

So the thoughts on Paul are pretty much "on the mark"....I've always thought he was an attitudinal whiner, IMO, but hat's just tme...

[jhansen]

Correct, Davey never won a race. Was a close and a consistent performer when he finished second to Stewart ('97) and Brack ('98) for the series title. I'm not sure if it was bad luck, or if he was too conservative.

Side note on Davey. He's won races in a lot of stuff, not just supers. As a matter of fact, he stopped Billy Boats midget win streak at 11 in '95 at Madera Speedway. That was one awesome race. I'll never forget it. Davey was all over Boat like you wouldn't believe and finally nailed down the pass in the closing stages.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by ghinzani
Cheers for that - I read once in the back of Racer or Open Wheel about a series called either F4000 or F6000 that was being advertised - ever hear of that one? Would have been mid 90s.

As I rememeber it, Formula 6000 was going to be a tube frame only, single seater series. A way of controlling costs and radical designs.


Tim:

Lloyd Ruby was a sad story, he was the one who started the late retirement of some drivers, trying to get one more, or in his case, one win.
I know he was still driving at age 52.

Eddie Sachs, he told his wife he would quit racing as soon as he won Indy, many say he lost it one year just so he could keep on racing.
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

Is there any, reasonably easy, way of finding out what drivers, at least since 1960 tried to qualify and totally failed or qualified but were bumped and never did make a field.
I was looking back at one of the two year books I have and Teddy Piletti is one name that I read but now I do not remember whether or not he made the field in 1977.

Another thing was the engines that failed to qualify (Aston Martin six cylinder, and Maseratti V-8)or were developed but never made the field or were, for the most part still born due to rules changes.(Crower flat 8, it used Cosworth Vega cylinder heads)
Here is a real rare on,(I wish I had the year book where I am at now)One fellow in 1977 entered two Antares, one had a turbo Offenhauser and the other had a V-12 that was developed for Indy in--1937.
Weren't the seventies great!
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

http://www.weismann.net/indy.html

I found this interesting, especially the first part.
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

With the possible exception of Tim, here is one that should confound a few:
What driver scored the last top ten finish in a turbine, when and where?
Bob

[macdaddy]

With Rustyfan's last post, I agree entirely.
I said it then, I'll say it now.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe

Here is a real rare on,(I wish I had the year book where I am at now)One fellow in 1977 entered two Antares, one had a turbo Offenhauser and the other had a V-12 that was developed for Indy in--1937.
Weren't the seventies great!
Bob

Agreed 70's were great - a v12 from '37? amazing. However the Offys roots were similarily vintage IIRC.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
As I rememeber it, Formula 6000 was going to be a tube frame only, single seater series. A way of controlling costs and radical designs.

Thanks for that - did it ever get anywhere?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by ghinzani
Thanks for that - did it ever get anywhere?

No, it came at a time when too many people had a "better ideas" but were blind to the fact that open-wheel racing was nearing self-destruction either by catering to the wrong people, or by the bias of the press against the IRL's failure to fail.
I still love CART's alternative 500 where the field crashed to a halt on the first lap!

That is an abstract of occurences and realities that would fill a fairly large book, but it is the ghist.

Bill Tempero and AIS made the best attempt at a lower cost alternative series, with feeder possibilities, but as AIS tanked, how could anything else even get started, especially if it involved entirely new cars.

Some one should write a book on the AIS, it brought Indy cars to people who otherwise would never had seen them.
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
With the possible exception of Tim, here is one that should confound a few:
What driver scored the last top ten finish in a turbine, when and where?
Bob

And the answer is: Rick Muther in 1970 at Trenton in a Glen Bryant PWturbine powered car.

Just a note here from a Volunteer Speedway site to show why I value Americas short track drivers in Indy cars.
Voluteer is a 4/10 mile track in Bull Gap, TN andhere is what they write about at some short tracks:

---"Wendell Wallace of Batesville, Ark., is the current Super Late Model track record holder at “The Gap,” having toured the track at 12.001-seconds, March 6, 1998. Gusty Christenberry of Seymour, Tenn., put a buzz in the crowd June 10, 2003, on “Run What Ya Brung” Tuesday by establishing a new overall track record in qualifying at 11.743-seconds … 122.630 mph. Christenberry’s blistering lap lowered the previous overall track record, which had been set on Aug. 18, 2000 in time trials for the United Sprint Car Series’ “North-South Shootout” by Malabar, Fla.’s Kenny Adams at 11:805-seconds … 121.982 mph."---

They tore up the dirt track in my home town over a decade ago and I still miss it.
Bob

[mountainstar]

Everyones hit the mark wrong on F6000. Mexican F2 died out and was replaced with a new Mexican series that used the old 1993 model Lola Indy Lights cars. In later years they added the newer 1997 Indy lights cars. I think the cars used the same 4.2 litre buick. Somewhere along the way, someone came up with the idea to run the same series pan North America. I don't think it ever got anywhere. I know about it because I threw away the prospectus I had from the series organizers 2 weeks ago. I think it was about 2002 or so when they tried to get it going.

[Bob Riebe]

I saw this rom BSJRacing over at Motorsport, about what the AIS once was and maybe could have been.
I think it also has a tint of the life and or death of OWRS and IRL.
Bob

___"The early years the AIS could have become something, To this day, I still think it was Tempero who limited what it could have become so he'd have a playground.
The first year I was involved with the Series ROY effort of Kevin Whitesides, notable drivers that year were Buddy Lazier and a couple of races from Bob Lazier. Robby Unser was there, and of course Tempero.

Later on in the league drivers like Johnny Unser, Jaques Lazier, and yes a one race deal for a relative unknown at the time named Jacques Villenueve. That's not uncle Jack, that's F1 WDC Jacques."---
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This was partly a reply to a post I made, that showed John Morton had won a race there.

[curtis spicer]

I just wanted to thank the person that posted the May, 2004 race results for the Lacrosse AIS race.

It brings back a lot of memories!

That was the 2nd. to last time I drove in that series, and I can say that I leared a lot more there, than I did testing with Indy Light teams, or the three years with Russell and Barber. (Russell has a better program by the way.)

Great site,

All the best

Curtis Spicer

[marcus]

welcome to the forum Curtis.

I dont know much about that series but it sounds interesting.

[Bob Riebe]

http://www.circletrack.com/circletra...mage_large.jpg
Ken Petrie, of Parker, Colorado, the current USSS point leader in his #95 Precision Industries March-Chevrolet, and Greg Gorden, of Colorado Springs, Colorado, in his #37 Pikes Peak International Raceway-sponsored G-Force-Aurora .. in practice for the USSS Sandia Indy Car Shootout II at Sandia Motorsports Park, Albuquerque, NM. Ken went on to take his fourth victory of the season that evening in the #95.


http://www.circletrack.com/circletra...mage_large.jpg
Phil Erickson, of Phoenix, Arizona / Lake Tahoe, Nevada, in his #7 Erickson Companies Lola-Buick, at Pikes Peak International Raceway, Fountain, Colorado. Phil won the Dodge City Indy Car Showdown at Dodge City Raceway Park, Dodge City, Kansas and currently is second in the USSS Championship.

The Below is From the same article in CirleTrack, Not Current
Upcoming Events

USSS Indy Cars to Help Raise Relief Funds
USSS and NASA will race Sept. 28-30 to raise funds for the United Way September Relief Fund, the Organ Donor Network, and the Arizona Kidney Foundation.

By Courtesy USSS, Pam Barker
Florissant, Colorado - The members of the United States Speedway Series and National Auto Sport Association extend their sympathy and prayers for those who have given their lives for America, to their families, and to all Americans at this difficult time.
In support, USSS and NASA will race September 28-30, 2001 to raise funds for the United Way September 11th Relief Fund, the Organ Donor Network, and the Arizona Kidney Foundation.

The USSS Firebird Indy Car Grand Prix will go as scheduled at Firebird International Raceway in Phoenix and admission for all spectators will be free with a donation to the charities.

"The President has asked Americans to return to life and business as usual and the United States Speedway Series, working with the National Auto Sport Association, had planned to make this event a charitable fundraiser prior to these heinous acts of war," said Mike Lee, USSS Operations Manager.
"Funds are always needed for medical groups like the Organ Donor Network and the Arizona Kidney Foundation; but all the Indy car drivers and teams of the USSS also feel a strong need to demonstrate our support for the President, and for our fellow Americans in New York City and Washington, not only by helping to collect donations for the United Way Relief Fund, but by freely and fearlessly travelling to Phoenix to conduct our business, as usual."

The race will be run on Firebird�*s 1.5-mile main track, in a return to road course racing for USSS after three oval events. It is Round Six of the eight-race inaugural season for the USSS Indy car Championship.
The event schedule includes practice on Friday and Saturday, with USSS Single-Car Qualifying at 3:00 pm Saturday. The USSS Firebird Indy Car Grand Prix will commence at 1:00 pm Sunday, September 30.
The USSS program for Indy cars and Champ cars will be a feature race event along with the NASA race program which includes Big Bore Production Based & GT Cars, Small Bore Production Based & GT Cars, Open Wheel Formula and Sports Racing Cars on the Firebird Main Track. The NASA Street car orientation program and High Performance Driving Event for Street Cars will be run on the Firebird West Track during the 3 day weekend.

Gates will open at 8:00 am daily and the public may make a donations to the Organ Donor Network, and the Arizona Kidney Foundation to gain free access to the grandstand and paddock areas.
USSS teams will also be contributing and collecting donations for the United Way September 11th Relief Fund. They will join NASA in continuing to raise funds for disaster aid at the remaining races of the season:

October 13-14 - Pikes Peak International - Colorado Springs, CO;
November 23-25 - Firebird International Raceway - Phoenix, AZ.

With thanks to the management and staff of FIREBIRD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY or contact (620) 268-0200
Held under auspices of NATIONAL AUTO SPORT ASSOCIATION


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Curtis:
Here are a couple of pictures from an online cirsle track article. These cars should look familiar.
How many races did you drive in and what car were you driving?
Plus, what is it like to drive an Indy car around a 5/8 mile flat track?
I am sure it is an eye opener.
Bob (The guy whose posted LaCrosse race.)

[Kicking-back]

Good to see these cars kept alive by amateur and fun racers.

I'm sure they'll enjoy them!

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Good to see these cars kept alive by amateur and fun racers.

I'm sure they'll enjoy them!

I do not know it was intentional or not, but unless you are a top level driver yourself, such insults are not needed.

Any one who gets paid for driving is a professional. Some are part time but they are all juat as professioanl as the other.
I think the all do it for fun. I know of no one forced to drive a race car.
Bob