Willem Toet (and other hillclimbers, 2006) - Page 2

**Woolley** · 20 Jan 2006, 13:59 (Ref:1505238)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Dillon

I can rember when anything over 120mph into Bottom Ess ment a trip up and along the bank!!!!

Commentators always said that anything over 118 would lose time through the Esses, and anything over 121 would lose wheels.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I heard Martin Groves telemetry showed 142 on once occasion last season.

DaveK · 20 Jan 2006, 14:33 (Ref:1505255)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

Commentators always said that anything over 118 would lose time through the Esses, and anything over 121 would lose wheels.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I heard Martin Groves telemetry showed 142 on once occasion last season.

Richard Dunn's excellant dvd with the data log trace of speed throttle and revs show close on 140 on the esses approach on Martins record run

Dave

rescue dude · 20 Jan 2006, 16:51 (Ref:1505349)

I only hope it's better than the engine he built for me.
Nowhere near the promised HP.
Oil pressure under acceleration is almost non-existant.
Leaks oil like a stuck pig.

Paul Ranson · 21 Jan 2006, 20:53 (Ref:1506255)

Quote:

I believe I heard Martin Groves telemetry showed 142 on once occasion last season.

I think '138' would be a realistic figure.

Paul

Jimbo88 · 22 Jan 2006, 01:59 (Ref:1506417)

Have you got any special plans for this year paul?

Also congrats to will mason on his award the other day, reckon he will walk to the 2ltr title this year and beat some of trevor's records on the way!

blackx · 22 Jan 2006, 12:50 (Ref:1506580)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveK

Richard Dunn's excellant dvd with the data log trace of speed throttle and revs show close on 140 on the esses approach on Martins record run

Dave

IIRC wasnt the late Mark Colton clocked @ 137mph through the speed trap at S Approach...
He had great difficulty getting it slowed down enough to negotiate the Esses.
Possibly down to the less effective brakes/aero package on his older car ??

Paul Ranson · 22 Jan 2006, 19:09 (Ref:1506869)

Quote:

Have you got any special plans for this year paul?

Apart from my foolproof plan TO RULE THE WORLD, nothing special.

Paul

Jim Lamb · 22 Jan 2006, 19:50 (Ref:1506892)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Dillon

I can rember when anything over 120mph into Bottom Ess ment a trip up and along the bank!!!!

I can remember Mark Coltons' stunning run, wasn't it 154mph through the speed trap?

Whoops hadn't seen your mail Steve. I stand corrected yes it was 137 or there abouts.

R's Jim Lamb

**Woolley** · 22 Jan 2006, 23:15 (Ref:1506995)

Yes I remember that, think I was at Ess Approach. I think it was followed by about 20 through the Esses. Brave and exciting effort, though, by the much-missed Mark. Don't think he and Willem overlapped, but I suspect they would have got on well if so.

ALANGRUMPY · 25 Jan 2006, 05:31 (Ref:1508581)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

I'm twitching at the prospect already - 150mph approach to Bottom Ess on full boost?

Finish line at Gurston should be equally impressive. Shame it's only the marshals who'll see it.

DaveK · 25 Jan 2006, 09:51 (Ref:1508660)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALANGRUMPY

Finish line at Gurston should be equally impressive. Shame it's only the marshals who'll see it.

In-car video gives you a good impression of the speed, I currently go over the finish at 114 so what 149 actually feels like must be awesome

Dave

Hitech · 25 Jan 2006, 11:41 (Ref:1508749)

I can remember many years back (late 80's?) someone who's name escapes me approaching bottom 'S' at Shelsley at 121mph (Then unheard of) and crashing heavily under breaking. They received a warning letter from the club about 'dangerous driving' and threatened with future exclusion! How times change.

b1ackcr0w · 25 Jan 2006, 13:00 (Ref:1508794)

Just as an anorak note...

Not many people have got much above 145mph over Gurston Finish.

I think David Grace held the record for a while at 147mph, I think Karl Davisons GR37 with that monster 4l Judd has matched that fairly Regularly, I think that it's only this year with all the well sorted GR55s that 149 and 150 is getting hit regularly. I think Woody had the record at 151 for a while but it's currently a stonking 154 by Grover, unsurprisingly.

I might have to twist Grumpy & Professors arm to go & have a mooch up there at a national soon.

b1ackcr0w · 25 Jan 2006, 13:07 (Ref:1508798)

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackx

IIRC wasnt the late Mark Colton clocked @ 137mph through the speed trap at S Approach...
He had great difficulty getting it slowed down enough to negotiate the Esses.
Possibly down to the less effective brakes/aero package on his older car ??

There's a good case to say that because of modern brakes & aero, the trap is now at the wrong place to pick up peak speed now. I'm sure that a comparison of telemetry against speed plots would tell you how far it would need to be moved.

Having said that, it's a bit arbitrary because the point won't have shifted for most competitors except the 2l and over 2l racing cars.

Steve Wilkinson · 25 Jan 2006, 13:27 (Ref:1508811)

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

Having said that, it's a bit arbitrary because the point won't have shifted for most competitors except the 2l and over 2l racing cars.

You're not implying that all those 1600, 1100 and 600 Racing cars - never mind the Sports Libres - haven't got modern brakes and aero packages are you?

I expect DaveK to come steaming in any moment! Probably with locked brakes!

**Woolley** · 25 Jan 2006, 13:46 (Ref:1508828)

Absolutely. Braking zone for Bottom Ess appears to be after the brow, when it used to be before it, and almost everything with wings is flat through Ess Approach. Modern tyres are a touch grippier too.

Did Gurston finish line for last year's national. Awesome stuff. IIRC Willem spent last year trying to prove that aero doesn't do anything judging by the amount of air he got at Ashes, and he dispensed with the use of front wheels entirely out of Museum at Loton. I think he reckoned the nose came up 3 feet under acceleration. Just picture that with the wick turned up...

b1ackcr0w · 25 Jan 2006, 13:46 (Ref:1508829)

Steve,

I'm not implying that no. But it's a fair point that their peak speed has probably changed quite a bit. In fact, now you've got me thinking about it, espeicially because of the weight reductions in those particular classes you mention, their braking points have probably changed pretty dramatically.

No - I sit corrected, I should have said all the racing car classes, not just 2l & over 2l. Not sure about sports libre, I don't think the technology extant in that class is evolving as quickly as the racing car classes. And I'd maintain the point that until its obvious that the majority of cars are braking much later, the move would still be arbitrary.

**Woolley** · 25 Jan 2006, 13:52 (Ref:1508832)

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

Not sure about sports libre, I don't think the technology extant in that class is evolving as quickly as the racing car classes.

*cough* Nic mann *cough*

Matt Dillon · 25 Jan 2006, 14:39 (Ref:1508855)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

*cough* Nic mann *cough*

Bad cough you've got there Woolley!!

Steve Wilkinson · 25 Jan 2006, 14:50 (Ref:1508858)

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

Not sure about sports libre, I don't think the technology extant in that class is evolving as quickly as the racing car classes. And I'd maintain the point that until its obvious that the majority of cars are braking much later, the move would still be arbitrary.

So excluding Nick Mann, Rob Stevens and Ed Hollier what did Sports Libre ever do to you?

b1ackcr0w · 25 Jan 2006, 15:14 (Ref:1508870)

Oh dear god,

Nick Mann? Yeah, I can see how a helicopter turbine as a precharger/antilag to a turbo is representative of the technology in that class. Have a word with yourselves please.

Oh, and lets deal with Rob Stevens and Ed Hollier. Both very talented drivers in very sorted cars. No doubt, we'll have Eds win and their occasional sucesses trotted out. But hold on here, My point is that in general the Sports Libre records and trap speeds have been stable for quite a while. And where records have dropped, we're talking about shavings off the long standing records, not the blooming great lumps of time that have been falling of some of the racing car classes for several years consecutively. Indicating to me, that while Sports Libre have got a bit faster because of better technology, it the racing cars where the technology is carving the significant lumps of time off the average climb and changing the way this hill are driven in those classes.

Now do get the point, or does your anorak need more adjustment?

quickbadgers · 25 Jan 2006, 16:09 (Ref:1508898)

I think that Rob Stevens in his new car might make a step forward in the sports libre class, the question is should it be classed as sports libre when there is no room in the tub for a passengers feet??

Gives a big advantage to handling if you can have your front wishbones the length you want! Just have to look at the F3 cars and the lengths they take to get the wishbones as long as possible.

b1ackcr0w · 25 Jan 2006, 16:30 (Ref:1508915)

Is the Mike Endean Puma Sports Libre?

If so, I dare say he'll get it nicely fettled soon and blow my argument totally into a cocked hat.

Matt Dillon · 25 Jan 2006, 16:41 (Ref:1508923)

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

Is the Mike Endean Puma Sports Libre?

If so, I dare say he'll get it nicely fettled soon and blow my argument totally into a cocked hat.

I've heard a rumor that Mike Endean is 'building' something else.

DaveK · 25 Jan 2006, 16:59 (Ref:1508934)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Dillon

I've heard a rumor that Mike Endean is 'building' something else.

From the info that is going around its a saloon car with a Nme 3.5 v8, it may well be based on the defunct scv8 series car

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