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Old 17 Jul 2018, 15:59 (Ref:3837142)   #26
Nononsensecapeesh
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I guess some of that may come from when an interest was first shown in this form of racing.

When the BRSCC 'announced plans for a new championship to cater for “the competitor who wants to race the ordinary family car, to do so throughout an entire season against evenly matched opposition.”' I would imagine that most people thought Saloon Cars, and British Saloon Car Championship sounded perfectly fine.

Did the change to BTCC in 1987 come with any objection from enthusiasts I wonder?
And were they objecting to the name change, or the types of vehicle used?

Although if this thread is specifically for Touring Car Drivers - does that mean it is a 1987-onwards focus?
I wouldn't know, the renaming predates me by 3 years, pre-1987 drivers can be included too but this is not specifically for the British Championship drivers.
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Old 17 Jul 2018, 17:16 (Ref:3837152)   #27
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Shall we get back on topic?
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Old 17 Jul 2018, 17:40 (Ref:3837154)   #28
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Er, I suppose we ought to......
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Old 17 Jul 2018, 19:39 (Ref:3837170)   #29
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Shall we get back on topic?
Good thinking. Now I was intended this to be more like a Touring Car version of F1/GP Rejects as their forum just happens to have previously had a BTCC Rejects topic but, like I say, this isn't solely about BTCC Drivers.
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Old 17 Jul 2018, 20:39 (Ref:3837178)   #30
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Good thinking. Now I was intended this to be more like a Touring Car version of F1/GP Rejects as their forum just happens to have previously had a BTCC Rejects topic but, like I say, this isn't solely about BTCC Drivers.
I'm still confused about two things with these threads though:

How is this a 'tribute to heroic failures', as GP Rejects does?
Why do we need to replicate another forum here?
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Old 17 Jul 2018, 20:44 (Ref:3837180)   #31
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I'm still confused about two things with these threads though:

How is this a 'tribute to heroic failures', as GP Rejects does?
Why do we need to replicate another forum here?
Just a thought...
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Old 18 Jul 2018, 06:39 (Ref:3837231)   #32
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Well it would be nice to debate those who didn't do anything noteworthy in the series, how good they really were
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Old 18 Jul 2018, 08:09 (Ref:3837240)   #33
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Well it would be nice to debate those who didn't do anything noteworthy in the series, how good they really were
And that's what I'm not seeing through these thread resurrections - it just seems like posts naming someone who didn't set the series' alight, with no real discussion or debate surrounding them.......
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Old 18 Jul 2018, 09:40 (Ref:3837261)   #34
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Between the mid 1970's to mid 1990's I feel that a lot of the drivers were there on merit.
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Old 18 Jul 2018, 10:35 (Ref:3837276)   #35
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Between the mid 1970's to mid 1990's I feel that a lot of the drivers were there on merit.
Not all of them, there's always the odd exception.
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Old 18 Jul 2018, 17:26 (Ref:3837347)   #36
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And to be fair the last couple of seasons the standard of drivers has been high
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Old 18 Jul 2018, 18:43 (Ref:3837370)   #37
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And to be fair the last couple of seasons the standard of drivers has been high
That's true.
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Old 19 Jul 2018, 21:35 (Ref:3837595)   #38
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And to be fair the last couple of seasons the standard of drivers has been high
What, the current series?!

With the exception of half a dozen drivers the field is made up of glorified club racers.

There is quantity but not quality.

If I may go back to 1985. If Sheene had been up against the big class field from 1984 he would have struggled. Win Percy showed what the MA61 Supra was capable of in '84 and it us a shame his increased TWR commitments prevented him returning.
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Old 19 Jul 2018, 21:49 (Ref:3837600)   #39
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Nononsensecapeesh should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Any one-off/part-time local WTCC entrants and also Olivier Tielemans in DTM and WTCC.
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Old 19 Jul 2018, 22:00 (Ref:3837603)   #40
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Any one-off/part-time local WTCC entrants and also Olivier Tielemans in DTM and WTCC.
So Tom Coronel and James Thompson make your list of 'worst touring car drivers'?
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Old 19 Jul 2018, 22:41 (Ref:3837609)   #41
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So Tom Coronel and James Thompson make your list of 'worst touring car drivers'?
Coronel and Thompsons did full campaigns as well so no.
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Old 20 Jul 2018, 06:20 (Ref:3837632)   #42
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You're making my head spin at the moment, and I'm struggling to see what point you are attempting to make...

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First and foremost, I mean worst BTCC Drivers
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Any one-off WTCC entrants
Coronel and Thompson both made one-off BTCC appearances, but somehow don't make your list of 'any'?

At the moment, it seems about as much use as making the statement:

Who are the worst drivers in touring cars? - those who had rubbish results!
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Old 20 Jul 2018, 08:41 (Ref:3837647)   #43
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What, the current series?!

With the exception of half a dozen drivers the field is made up of glorified club racers.

There is quantity but not quality.

If I may go back to 1985. If Sheene had been up against the big class field from 1984 he would have struggled. Win Percy showed what the MA61 Supra was capable of in '84 and it us a shame his increased TWR commitments prevented him returning.
Yes the current series, which saw 13 drivers score win last season and 34 of the 37 drivers score points and even under the old top 10 system there would have been 30 drivers that scored. The fact is it hasn't been this competitive since the super touring days
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Old 20 Jul 2018, 19:01 (Ref:3837717)   #44
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Reid, PLato and Patrick Watts

Dirty drivers the lot of them

With a nod to Tim Harvey too!
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Old 23 Jul 2018, 11:30 (Ref:3838269)   #45
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I'll start with G1 BSCC days.

In the Group A years,the late Barry Sheene was pretty poor in the '85 Celica Supra.
Well Bazza did win a BMW county race. The most unusual thing was that he did not hold a RACMSA racing licience at the time
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Old 23 Jul 2018, 15:57 (Ref:3838308)   #46
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Well Bazza did win a BMW county race. The most unusual thing was that he did not hold a RACMSA racing licience at the time
You sure that wasn't Barrie Williams?! 😆
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Old 23 Jul 2018, 16:00 (Ref:3838311)   #47
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You sure that wasn't Barrie Williams?! 😆
He might have done so as well, but I only know of Barry Sheene
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Old 23 Jul 2018, 16:01 (Ref:3838312)   #48
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Yes the current series, which saw 13 drivers score win last season and 34 of the 37 drivers score points and even under the old top 10 system there would have been 30 drivers that scored. The fact is it hasn't been this competitive since the super touring days
Pretty sure a series with multiple winners is more indicative of a lower quality than higher quality of drivers and/or cars that are too similar in performance.

The current series should not be compared with Supertouring, or Group A for that matter. Both were far superior in depth of drivers and machinery.
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Old 23 Jul 2018, 16:07 (Ref:3838314)   #49
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Geoff seemed to have a few incidents and to be fair to Khan he only did half a season. He had one race in a Toyota, where he did quite well, then switched back to the Vauxhall, before leaving the series mid season. Geoff Steel though seemed unable of challenging the top privateers though

what happened to Khan's Toyota after Thruxton? Seemed to race it once and then was never seen again in 94
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Old 23 Jul 2018, 16:15 (Ref:3838318)   #50
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I've been looking at this thread and wonder how people can define "worst" do you mean someone that has virtually crashed every time on the first lap ? or has never got into the points regardless of how many races they have entered ? A mediocre driver in the best car can get in the points the same as the best driver in a mediocre car can so I don't actually see how you can define "worst"

I suppose the only way you could possibly see an answer is by looking at someone who has had the very best/fastest and reliable car with unlimited finance and has done a full season/seasons Whereas some drivers who could be very good but have a limited budget and an unreliable/uncompetitive car don't have much chance unless others break down or get involved in crashes could be classed as worst !
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