MS - Can he race wheel to wheel?

Rossi # 46 · 6 Mar 2005, 09:04 (Ref:1244175)

Before I begin, it is not my intention to start a bashing thread here.

What are your thought about MS's ability to race wheel to wheel in a GP? We all know that when it comes to winning a GP, MS is definately one of the greatest ever.

However do you think he has the same qualities to race amongst the pack like Senna, Mansell and Villeneve etc? It seems to me that whenever MS is towards the front, no one can beat him. However mix him up in the pack, and he does seem to struggle.

Just my thoughts, now behave.

Armco Bender · 6 Mar 2005, 09:09 (Ref:1244178)

Its hard to go fast with a Williams parked in your rear end.
He was picking his way through the traffic OK until that happened,he was probably only looking to pick up some points this race,its a long way to go in the championship yet.

TCR-028 · 6 Mar 2005, 09:13 (Ref:1244185)

I thought he really struggled whereas Rubens was very impressive in traffic...
One of the Aussie TV commentators mentioned shortly after the race that Michael seems to struggle a little at times when he doesn't qualify well - so you aren't the only one thinking that way Rossi # 46...

Armco Bender - i though Michael was at fault to be honest - seemed like he tried to block Heidfeld a bit late...

raul_iulian · 6 Mar 2005, 09:16 (Ref:1244191)

Yes ... and i hope this will be his year ...OUT
Michael was never good in racing whell to wheel!
Remember 1997 and Mika's years(2)
When he is in front he is unstopeble. If you think the guy doesn't know what means to race wheel to wheel... i mean he is used to wining in front with 20 sec advantage!

Armco Bender · 6 Mar 2005, 09:21 (Ref:1244198)

Pull out the old videos,MS has blasted through from the back of the field plenty of times.

raul_iulian · 6 Mar 2005, 09:25 (Ref:1244204)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Pull out the old videos,MS has blasted through from the back of the field plenty of times.

Ofcourse he has, it's easy to blast the pack withe F1* car... but when his car wasnt so F1*... well

mmciau · 6 Mar 2005, 09:23 (Ref:1244200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossi # 46

What are your thought about MS's ability to race wheel to wheel in a GP? We all know that when it comes to winning a GP, MS is definately one of the greatest ever.

Of course he can race wheel to wheel but normally he doesn't have to!

The "package" is normally so superior to the other "packages" that he is able to pass and distance himself so quickly that there is no need to race wheel to wheel!

Mind you he hates being passed so he'll apply "dogged race craft"- I will always remember how he dealt with Damon Hill in Adelaide!

Mike

mp356a · 7 Mar 2005, 18:50 (Ref:1245851)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmciau

.........Mind you he hates being passed so he'll apply "dogged race craft"- I will always remember how he dealt with Damon Hill in Adelaide!

Mike

Amen! This is about the best summary you can have for MS. One of the German rags called him a poor loser after this weekend and I'd have to agree. He is a dangerous driver to pass. His comment about the last wreck, "I lost him in my mirrors" is bogus. He lost him so he moved over where he knew he'd be. Period.
Remember when he changed his helmet color so no one would confuse him with Rubens.....so people would get out of his way?
He is a very skilled and fast driver but we should consider ourselves blessed that he's had such a superior car so he's not had to actually kill anyone.
Expect more wrecks this year when the Renaults and McClarens begin to hound him at every race.
Of course I could be wrong.

Mike

**Adam43** · 7 Mar 2005, 18:57 (Ref:1245856)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp356a

He is a very skilled and fast driver but we should consider ourselves blessed that he's had such a superior car so he's not had to actually kill anyone.

I'm not sure this OTT emotive desciption helps your reasoning.

I might even go as far as suggesting that The wheel to wheel stuff might be Michael's weakest point, but that would be his weakest, which is pretty good by anyone else's standards.

It does show that in a wheel to wheel battle the other drivers should try to put him under pressure. Next time Heidfeld (or whoever) can challenge him, be prepared for the defence and use it.

mp356a · 7 Mar 2005, 19:05 (Ref:1245867)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I'm not sure this OTT emotive desciption helps your reasoning.
.....

OTT? I also remember his infamous championship-winning "move" on Damon. OTT? Since when is any description of an F1 driver deliberately crashing another OTT?
He's like The Black Knight from Python's Holy Grail, "None shall pass!". LOL
In any case I did not mean for that particular post to be steeped in emotion, like this one!

**Adam43** · 7 Mar 2005, 20:41 (Ref:1245998)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp356a

... I did not mean for that particular post to be steeped in emotion, like this one!

Apologises, it was the suggestion that Michael would kill someone if he had too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp356a

It is pleasing to see that I am not alone in this observation.

I don't know why you'd think you are alone in this matter - I find that point of view very common.

He has pulled some bad ones over the years and ultimately that is probably why I shall never be a fan of his (although I do enjoy a lot of his wins), but are his number of controversial moments particularly high for a driver who has done 200 odd GP?

I guess so, compared to a Prosty. No where near when compared to a de Cesaris. Although Michael was further up the grid than one of them!

Armco Bender · 6 Mar 2005, 09:26 (Ref:1244206)

A small wager says MS will be popping the champers the next few GP's........

Rossi # 46 · 6 Mar 2005, 09:48 (Ref:1244237)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

A small wager says MS will be popping the champers the next few GP's........

You may well be right, but whats that got to do with the topic??

Paarma · 6 Mar 2005, 09:41 (Ref:1244226)

Michael has raced through the pack more times than I care to remember, but he does seem to get a bit itchy when being overtaken. I guess it's just a change from the usual for him although overall, I think he's more skilled in overtaking than defending position.

raul_iulian · 6 Mar 2005, 09:47 (Ref:1244236)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paarma

I think he's more skilled in overtaking than defending position.

Here i agree!

RWC · 6 Mar 2005, 09:55 (Ref:1244254)

Some of you have mentioned coming through the pack from behind-this is not what the question is really about because on these occasions he allways had a much faster car

When shu is trying to pass someone equal he,more often than not,tends to do it abit rudely(sometimes VERY rudely) or just too impatiently so that the other driver has to get out the way to avoid an accident.

So no,shu is not good racing wheel to wheel.
He absolutally has the skills to race neatly and safely but simply chooses to do things wrong

BootsOntheSide · 6 Mar 2005, 10:45 (Ref:1244296)

When Michael doesn't have a good car, he can panic on occasion, and that's what seemed to happen today. He gave Nick no room, and no chance to back out of the situation, and similar things have happened in the past.

Rossi # 46 · 6 Mar 2005, 10:56 (Ref:1244305)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

When Michael doesn't have a good car, he can panic on occasion, and that's what seemed to happen today. He gave Nick no room, and no chance to back out of the situation, and similar things have happened in the past.

Suzuka 2003 immediately springs to mind.

ASCII Man · 6 Mar 2005, 10:59 (Ref:1244313)

He pulled a move quite like Kimi did on Sato a while back, but I rather think that Kimi totally forgot about the little Japanese guy instead of trying to block him...

Michael Schumacher is Michael Schumacher, he's always up to no good!
He deliberately pushed Nick out to keep him from being the best German of the day!

JeremySmith · 6 Mar 2005, 15:47 (Ref:1244589)

Michael Schumacher is Michael Schumacher, he's always up to no good!
He deliberately pushed Nick out to keep him from being the best German of the day!

[/QUOTE]

I was thinking along those lines myself...Michael should have let Nick pass, I think he used that situation to get himself a new engine for the next race.

foreversideways · 6 Mar 2005, 11:05 (Ref:1244323)

Early days yet but lets hope for Shumi falls behind the pack so we can see what he is made of.

Rossi # 46 · 6 Mar 2005, 11:08 (Ref:1244325)

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreversideways

Early days yet but lets hope for Shumi falls behind the pack so we can see what he is made of.

Would be great entertainment if he does. And beleive me if he can prove me wrong and slice through the pack it would make for a very entertaining race.

Nivola · 6 Mar 2005, 11:24 (Ref:1244343)

Ask Hill Jv Alonso about this and they would agree!!!!!!!!!!! Cant drive in a straight line!

If anyone has a copy of Alex Zanardi's book there some interesting incidents with a young Mr Shuey. Going straight down the road three wide, i turn left and punt you off i then turn right and punt you off. All on a straight bit of tarmac.

ssilviu · 6 Mar 2005, 11:36 (Ref:1244349)

if ferrari can't offer this year again the best car to TFH, then i'm afraid, this will be his last year in F1.

paddy · 6 Mar 2005, 11:40 (Ref:1244356)

MS has has driven into people throughout his career. He put Alonso on the grass on Hanger Straight a couple of years ago and that could have had serious implications.
I also agree with Brundle that MS shouldn't be beckoning marshals onto the track. Funny how his great interest in safety is suddenly forgotten.

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