[Driver] Nico vs Michael

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Getting out of his contract long before it runs out would tarnish his reputation alot more than if he was just beaten by Nico, tbh.
I don't think he would just walk out like that.

I'm sure that there are clauses for both sides and he only has to say that at the age of 41/42/43 it's too much for him, no one would think worse of him for that, i don't see a tarnished reputation if he were to walk away.

[Super Hans]

Does anyone else think that Autosport might be jumping the gun by labelling Nico "F1 2010's GIANT KILLER"?

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I'm sure that there are clauses for both sides and he only has to say that at the age of 41/42/43 it's too much for him, no one would think worse of him for that, i don't see a tarnished reputation if he were to walk away.

It'd be funny if he drove into the pits in Melbourne, took off his helmet and said "Sod this. Anyone fancy a pint?"

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I'm sure that there are clauses for both sides and he only has to say that at the age of 41/42/43 it's too much for him, no one would think worse of him for that, i don't see a tarnished reputation if he were to walk away.

Let's not forget, he didn't fill in for Massa because the Ferrari was s***, sorry because he had injured his neck and hadn't recovered.
If he cries off, then it will be because of the injured neck he's carrying.

As an aside, didn't he have a medical in his Ferrari career, where a doctor examining an x-ray etc asked when he'd broken his neck? ( Hairline fracture ) He hadn't realised he had, transpired he had done the damage in 1991 when he went off the track in Suzuka in a huge accident. Maybe that also explains the neck injury last year.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Does anyone else think that Autosport might be jumping the gun by labelling Nico "F1 2010's GIANT KILLER"?

Yes, but it's typical Autosport sensationalism.

"One swallow does not a summer make, nor one fine day; similarly one day or brief time of happiness does not make a person entirely happy.”

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by strider

Yes, but it's typical Autosport sensationalism.

"One swallow does not a summer make, nor one fine day; similarly one day or brief time of happiness does not make a person entirely happy.”

Very good mate, and so true..This is all something about nothing as usual...

[Born Racer]

One thing I am finding interesting though (and as many have pointed out, let's wait and see for a lot more races before judging the battle overall) is that people seem to be redefining their expectations of Nico VS Michael. Before, some people were saying if Michael wasn't at least on Nico's pace, it would be a disaster for him. Now that sort of talk seems to be fading.

Will people finally give Nico some credit for his results? I think Nico is in the 'win-win' situation in terms of perception.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Michael has nothing to lose to be honest, his record speaks for itself.

I did not think for one moment that he would make Nico look silly, as Rosberg would not be at Mercedes if Ross did not believe he could cut the mustard and get the job done..

Okay happy now Born Racer?... It's Friday night I am sure you understand..

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I think Nico is in the 'win-win' situation in terms of perception.

Completely, and perception is everything.

There are reasons why Nico seems to have the edge over Michael at this stage, and I don't think it's down to outright talent, but the longer he keeps his illustrious team-mate in the shade the more his reputation will grow.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by strider

Yes, but it's typical Autosport sensationalism.

"One swallow does not a summer make, nor one fine day; similarly one day or brief time of happiness does not make a person entirely happy.”

We're now onto two swallow's and i'd imagine that Michael is finding being beaten by Nico, hard to, errr, swallow

[Dutton]

I imagine he was disappointed with his own inability to get back through the field.

His pace in open air was perfectly good, so I don't suppose he is worried from that angle, but he surely would've figured he would have been closer to the Alonso comeback than what he actually managed (or didn't, as it were).

[tony griffiths]

at least he didnt park it into the wall ......... Monaco ............. which was his decision and why didnt he get the critiscm that the other bloke got ??????????

[strider]

Originally Posted by Mr V

We're now onto two swallow's and i'd imagine that Michael is finding being beaten by Nico, hard to, errr, swallow

[Super Hans]

It's bad enough being beaten, but beaten by a girl?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Dutton

I imagine he was disappointed with his own inability to get back through the field.

His pace in open air was perfectly good, so I don't suppose he is worried from that angle, but he surely would've figured he would have been closer to the Alonso comeback than what he actually managed (or didn't, as it were).

I think we've enough evidence now to demonstrate that the cars can't overtake each other in the dry. Lewis was 2 seconds a lap faster than Alonso and couldn't get by him. Schumacher had to resort to wheel banging to get by Jamie in an STR. Otherwise I thought he had a good weekend. He was more or less on Nico's pace trough qualifying and had made a demon start until he got clipped by the Button/Alonso contretemps at the first corner.

[pole2pole]

I have always been very impressed with Nico and i am not one bit surprised that he is out performing Michael. I dont think we have seen where Michael is really at in the two races so far. I dont think he has the car to match the front runners. The rules regarding testing will be effecting his progress. Back in his Ferrari days it was said that they tested 7 days a week! Also with the rule change on refueling he is no longer getting those magic Brawn pit wall calls to come in get fuel and leap frog a few positions. What we need is for Michael to qualify on the front row and get a good start. Thats when we will find out where he really is. 2-0 to Nico.

[Peat]

Nico has won the battle, because according to the bastion of sporting news, The Daily Mirror, Michael is about to turn his back on the sport:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-s...5875-22145877/

Gotta love the red-tops!

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by davyboy

He was more or less on Nico's pace trough qualifying and had made a demon start until he got clipped by the Button/Alonso contretemps at the first corner.

Well said.

Perception is everything (as I said earlier) and the general perception is that Schumacher had a terrible race tooling round at the back whilst his team-mate finished well up the road. The truth is that Schumacher was on Nico's pace but had his race ruined by someone else's accident.

As soon as Schumacher outqualifies or outraces Nico, even it's by one tenth or a single position on-track, people will start writing Nico off and hailing the great man's return.

Knee-jerk reactions are the order of the day.

[Sodemo]

I think that Michael will quit F1 by mid-season.

[pole2pole]

Originally Posted by Peat

Nico has won the battle, because according to the bastion of sporting news, The Daily Mirror, Michael is about to turn his back on the sport:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-s...5875-22145877/

Gotta love the red-tops!

It was only a matter of time till one of the redtops went for the good old should he have returned stories. I can just see it if Michael wins the next race. The redtops will be running with "Michael shows the kids how its done"

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by pole2pole

I dont think he has the car to match the front runners. The rules regarding testing will be effecting his progress. Back in his Ferrari days it was said that they tested 7 days a week! Also with the rule change on refueling he is no longer getting those magic Brawn pit wall calls to come in get fuel and leap frog a few positions. What we need is for Michael to qualify on the front row and get a good start. Thats when we will find out where he really is. 2-0 to Nico.

1) In the Ferrari days, he had the best car by a mile.
2) He had subserviant team-mates.
3) He did most of the testing and it could be up to 7 days a week.
4) Ferrari, so MS, had Bridgestone exclusively to themselves in his dominant era. Alot of the testing costs at the time were paid for by Bridgestone.
5) Michael was the perfect driver in a refueling generation, His youth and fitness was beyond anybody elses.

Whats changed is he hasn't driven for 3 years, but when he tested for Ferrari he was on the pace of Raikkonen and Massa.
He is older, and by definition his speed of thought and hand/eye co-ordination has slowed.
He doesn't have an aura of respect/ fear about him, the youngsters are more than willing to fight him.

2004 was his peak. 2005 and 2006 you could see a driver searching for the limit and making mistakes. Things that he never worried about previously.
I'm a Ferrari fan through and through, and will be eternally grateful for all that Schumi gave us, but anyone could have seen the signs he wasn't the best after 2004.

2005 was the FIA's idea of knifing Ferrari in the back with the single set of tyre rule. Effectively neutralising Bridgestone/Ferrari advantage.
2006, Schumacher had been beaten by Alonso at Bahrain but was beaming. Mark Hughes writing for Autosport commented how strange that expression was, and surmised that MS knew he could fight throughout his last F1 season.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

The truth is that Schumacher was on Nico's pace but had his race ruined by someone else's accident.

Of course, that didn't help, but when the safety car came in, Michael was 2 places behind Fernando, but ended the race 6 places behind. Now, obviously, they were in different cars, but i would have expected the same sort of progression through the pack.

I have no doubt that Michael's season will get better, he's too good for it not too, but if asked if he thought that he'd be overtaken by Di Grassi, or dukeing it out with an STR, i'd imagine that he'd be the first to admit that he didn't expect to see that.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Of course, that didn't help, but when the safety car came in, Michael was 2 places behind Fernando, but ended the race 6 places behind. Now, obviously, they were in different cars, but i would have expected the same sort of progression through the pack.

Ended the race six places behind, but at one point Alonso was 4th and MS was 13th...
I remember the 1999 Spanish GP. Ferrari team-mates, Schumacher and Irvine were caught out at the start by Villeneuve's BAR which held them up till he stopped for fuel.
What fascinated me was how Schumi pulled away from Irvine, around a second a lap, and finished the race 30 or 45seconds ahead.

At his peak Schumi was awesome, one of the top 5 ever.
Sadly I don't think he has that hunger anymore. I'm not saying he won't win anymore races, but he hasn't that aura about him.

As comparison, Lauda retired midway through 1979, and returned in 1982. Lauda at his peak was a stunningly quick driver. 9 poles in 1974 and 1975. Bravery beyond belief, but whilst he was given respect for his return in 1982, there was no fear there.

I suspect Schumi was to return for Ferrari last year, but probably found out it was purely for 2009 and there was no place in 2010. At which point his neck hurt a little

[ralf fan]

The problem for Michael is his results and performances even if are considered decent for many other drivers, he will always be compared to the extraordinary standards he set when he was younger. Hence if he doesn't match that he will be criticized. His race in Australia was very very poor by his standards. While Alonso was able to come through the field, Schumacher with a car that was still superior to those in front was tooling around for 40 odd laps.

Michael deserves time and as such we should wait till midseason judge his return but it isn't looking good thus far.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Hence if he doesn't match that he will be criticized. His race in Australia was very very poor by his standards. While Alonso was able to come through the field, Schumacher with a car that was still superior to those in front was tooling around for 40 odd laps.

Michael deserves time and as such we should wait till midseason judge his return but it isn't looking good thus far.

Confused as to what you were expecting here. He changed tyres just when the track started to dry and nobody, not even Alonso or Hamilton, did much in the way of overtaking after that. Do we seriously think that the fact he couldn't get by the STR was down to a deterioration in his ability ?

I have to say I'm mighty impressed with Schumacher's return, and mighty relieved that Nico is a hair's breath ahead of him. If things were the other way around, there's a likelihood people would be writing off one of the best talents on the grid at the moment.