[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[Sodemo]

For me the current engines sound like they are misfiring. They just sound like broken V8s.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

There are rules to be annoyed about. Double points, engine limits. It would be good if a little more fuel was allowed IMO as well and grid penalties and drive throughs should be abolished. But the cars look great on track, as I said in the race thread they really remind me of CART with the turbo power and reduced aero grip.

The more demanding handling characteristics, which seem to be playing well with the fans, are a direct result of the teams having to trim downforce to achieve the fuel economy targets. Give them more fuel, and you the get same-old, same-old glued cars "that any monkey/grandma/etc. could drive."

I'm hoping the harder-to-drive cars prove very popular and the consensus of the fans is "Do more of that." More of that would be easily accomplished through fuel allocations that are a little stingier. More of a chance for the better drivers to distinguish themselves.

[MarkG]

I just hope it takes a while (preferrably not at all) before the engineers claw back all the downforce because it is nice to see drivers actually having to drive difficult cars. Massive downforce doesn't allow true skill to properly shine through because the driver input is so much less.

For me the rule changes have added a spark to F1 again and this could be a classic F1 season.

We can now appreciate more the drivers' skills, things are less predictable, teams have a lot to learn and discover. It has been a long time coming, so I hope it lasts a good while.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by miatanut

The more demanding handling characteristics, which seem to be playing well with the fans, are a direct result of the teams having to trim downforce to achieve the fuel economy targets. Give them more fuel, and you the get same-old, same-old glued cars "that any monkey/grandma/etc. could drive."

I'm hoping the harder-to-drive cars prove very popular and the consensus of the fans is "Do more of that." More of that would be easily accomplished through fuel allocations that are a little stingier. More of a chance for the better drivers to distinguish themselves.

Agee with the down force and difficulty to drive, very nervous that the fuel regs are going to lead to a lot of fuel conservation touring 7 secs off the pace.

It is great to see the cars moving around though! "Do more of that."


I think one of the things we are seeing with the reduced down force is how much twitchier and faster to react the cars are! All good!

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by miatanut

The more demanding handling characteristics, which seem to be playing well with the fans, are a direct result of the teams having to trim downforce to achieve the fuel economy targets. Give them more fuel, and you the get same-old, same-old glued cars "that any monkey/grandma/etc. could drive."

True, although the base downforce has still been slashed significantly anyways.

[wolfhound]

Jean Todt has said there should be a rethink over the double points for the last race because of the fans being against it.
As F1 chiefs have agreed to do something about the sound (more difficult) they should direct their attention to the bigger issue with fans double points.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113375

I hope succeeds indealing with the double points as it is only question of a vote with no other problems to fix. If the double points are removed it will be victory for fans.

[Adam43]

Fingers crossed they get rid of this.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Fingers crossed they get rid of this.

They will Adam, it's complete rubbish and they know it ..

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Jean Todt has said there should be a rethink over the double points for the last race because of the fans being against it.
As F1 chiefs have agreed to do something about the sound (more difficult) they should direct their attention to the bigger issue with fans double points.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113375

I hope succeeds indealing with the double points as it is only question of a vote with no other problems to fix. If the double points are removed it will be victory for fans.

Haha love how blunt Niki is! And of course I think he's completely right.

[S griffin]

Finally it seems someone has taken their head out the sand and realised that the fans need to be listened to. Please get rid of it now Mr Todt.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Finally it seems someone has taken their head out the sand and realised that the fans need to be listened to. Please get rid of it now Mr Todt.

I hope this isn't just a bit of posturing and Todt doesn't drag his feet over this.

[JeremySmith]

Dbl points will remain in the rules for this year (sigh)

Why Todt can not simply say "they are gone" I fail to understand ????

[wolfhound]

Niki Lauda was angry at the way Bernie Ecclestone was complaining about F1's new rules and let it be known at meetings in Bahrain. He was also not happy with diMontezelo for wanting to get the rules changed.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113400

I think Niki is right and hope he got some support for his views.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I think Niki is right and hope he got some support for his views.

While I agree with yourself and Niki for that matter, his comments must be taken with a grain of salt, because you have to remember which garage he spends his weekends in.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by mikuni

While I agree with yourself and Niki for that matter, his comments must be taken with a grain of salt, because you have to remember which garage he spends his weekends in.

I am aware of that but Bernie (before he heard one on track) has been on about the sound of the new engines and got his mate Ron Walker (Austrailan Gp promoter)to join in. I thought it was Bernie's job to promote F1 not the opposite. As for diMontezemolo his cars are not doing very well and are behind all the Mercedes powered cars plus probably two of the Renault powered ones in terms of pace. I don't remember him complaining when Ferrari dominated in the early naughties or wanting rules changed.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Niki Lauda was angry at the way Bernie Ecclestone was complaining about F1's new rules and let it be known at meetings in Bahrain. He was also not happy with diMontezelo for wanting to get the rules changed.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113400

I think Niki is right and hope he got some support for his views.

The difference when Vettel and RBR were winning at the end of last year was that the aerodynamics where their advantage was derived was not frozen, but the power units are!
So I guess Niki is just protecting his competitive advantage.

These development freezes are just not F1 - they have to go!

The whole point of F1 is DEVELOPMENT!

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by wnut

The whole point of F1 is DEVELOPMENT!

Agreed!!
But I'm not sure how much new development that counts IS frozen.

My perception is that at present the race performance is governed by traction limitation and the control of power delivery rather than outright power availability.
Like it or not, the software blending the delivery of electric and ICE power is a form of traction control. Mercedes seem to have done it best.
The reason that it is RBR who are closest to Mercedes is that they are the masters of milking maximum traction from the chassis and aero design.
Now that would indicate that the difference in performance between the Mercedes powerd cars and everyone else is probably in the area of software control of power delivery.
I can't see anywhere in the "freeze" that prevents software updates, and even if there were the difficulty in differentiating those updates from normal circuit to circuit tweaks would be very hard to legislate or enforce.
Meanwhile will all those whingers shut up and get on with making their cars competitive.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by wnut

The difference when Vettel and RBR were winning at the end of last year was that the aerodynamics where their advantage was derived was not frozen, but the power units are!
So I guess Niki is just protecting his competitive advantage.

These development freezes are just not F1 - they have to go!

The whole point of F1 is DEVELOPMENT!

The most troubling part of all this is that the restrictions on development are supposed to help hold costs.
The reality is that the teams will spend whatever they have to go faster and the attempts the reign in testing simply directed to money elsewhere in the quest for greater speed.
Several times changes in the rules in the quest for less cost often cost the teams more. Limiting testing because McLaren and Ferrari had dedicated test teams that did nothing but test, no racing, but banning it simply forced the teams to go in the virtual direction so they now spend millions on sophisticated simulators.

Changing the 3.0 V10's for 2.4 litre V8's was going to reduce cost....
But they allowed 18000 rpm....
Now we have swapped a 10 million package for a 25 million one and to think teams like Caterham came into the sport on a promise of doing a whole season for $40-$50 million.....

A complete rethink about what we are here for is necessary.it also makes for a boring season if teams cannot do the practical testing to develop the chassis and engines of the new formula. it is ludicrous to have a budget of a$100-150 million and not be able to develop and test your power unit because everything is frozen till next season. It just defies belief.

You can't develop this year so spend 50 million just cruising till next year when 2015 homologation changes kick in?

[wolfhound]

If you had a budget cap then you would need to freeze development the limit would be the money available and make the best use of it.

[Greem]

The whole point of F1 is...

Development?
Sponsorship?
Commercial partnerships?
Technology?
Road car relevance?
Entertainment?
Profit?

...Racing?

[Peter Mallett]

...............racing..................

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Greem

The whole point of F1 is...

Development?
Sponsorship?
Commercial partnerships?
Technology?
Road car relevance?
Entertainment?
Profit?

...Racing?

It's about the racing apparently??

Originally Posted by wnut

What is F1 actually about?
To me it is about the racing

No.. wait, is about development apparently??

Originally Posted by wnut

The whole point of F1 is DEVELOPMENT!

Hitting your head against a brick wall can cause confusion I've heard.... mmmkay.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Greem

The whole point of F1 is...

Development?
Sponsorship?
Commercial partnerships?
Technology?
Road car relevance?
Entertainment?
Profit?

...Racing?

I don't know why we apparently have to choose, you might as well argue about whether we brush our teeth to keep the gums healthy, stop the teeth decaying or avoid our breath smelling like the dog's! The only things on your list that could be considered optional is road car relevance and ideally I'd like to see some of that as well.

[Greem]

Thankyou all for making my point even clearer.

F1 is all of those things and more, none exclusively.

Although the racing, in my opinion, is the biggest and most important aspect. If the racing is rubbish, all the other aspects suffer.

Anyway, about those rule changes...

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Greem

The whole point of F1 is...

Development?
Sponsorship?
Commercial partnerships?
Technology?
Road car relevance?
Entertainment?
Profit?

...Racing?

The best racing is always at the club level.