Entry fee increase

[Tim Falce]

I think the BARC have got the message. Not having a registartion fee and mebership of any other club being sufficient for them is a good move. They also offered discounts on all the races this year that i am interested in. Maybe the 750MC and others should take note. Because of the high prices in other series I can't afford to do as many races as I would like to this year.
Think I might move to Aus.

[RMR]

Sorry to raise this thread again but I thought i'd share some correspondance with you.

Recently I entered a race 7 working days before the race. Its the SFFC champ at Brands which is struggling for racers as it is. After the race weekend I found that the BRSCC had charged me a late entry fee of £25, taking the total entry to £218 for 1 race. Obviously unhappy more so that I hadnt been notified I would be charged, I emailed the BRSCC raising the issues of high entry fees and lates fees etc, saying all this equals smaller grids. I think I have worked out the attitude from a quote or 2 from them. first one was " The costs of running a Race Meeting are quite astronomical and the work load involved would certainly make you wonder why we do it" is it just me here or are they a business and that there job, can you imagine saying that to your customers. another "I am sorry that you suffered this time, but only you can put things right" i said to them i understand late fees but it doesnt cost additional money to them and dis-encourages people like me.
I tried asking them to acknowledge issues such as entry fees, and how difficult it is to race when its self funded, or more so how its justified at £190 for a race. no luck Yet. I also have asked them there opinion on if the fee was lower they would get fuller grids and potentially more money, cant they see why the grids are so small! next year I can see the entry being £200+ for a race. Might Go Back to Combe

sorry to rant just wanted to share my views (again)

[JR Ewing]

Go to the Midlands - better tracks, cheaper entries, need YOUR entry. More distant but motorways good.

[Snapper Baz]

Spectators, marshals & drivers will have noticed that last weekends Mini 7/Miglia grids were well down-despite them having 2 races each. With so many points at stake you would have thought that everybody would have been out. On talking to a few Mini drivers that had come just to watch-the answer was: "How can they (BRSCC) expect us to fork out a £300 entry for a clubbie meeting-and with just a handful of passes which wont allow me to get all my mechanics etc in-I'd rather not race!"...hence the reason why it was probably the smallest Mini 7RC grid seen in a long time...even with loads of points up for grabs. And still they cant understand that they are ripping off drivers!

[ss_collins]

well look at grid sizes in 750mc meetings more stock hatches than I could be bothered to count, 54 vees, a wedge of locosts (btw I'm talking silverstone).

Perhaps other clubs need to look at the way the local (SEMSEC, DDMC etc) and 750 do things cos its a damn sight cheaper

[JR Ewing]

Having raced with all major clubs, and as no particular fan of the BRSCC, I must point out that you get what you pay for, and you get less with the 750MC than you do with BARC?BRSCC.

Like timetables always altered and then not stuck to. Qually sessions too short without explanation. Nil crowds AT ALL. Loads of poor car preparation that I am embarrassed to share with. The 750 is, I suppose, more of a true 'club' than a event 'organiser.'

IMO all clubs are very ameateurish though.

[greenamex2]

Whilst the 750MC do have some big grids which MAY be due to low costs they have still had to cancel series due to lack of entries proving that low entry fees is not the only factor.

You still need series regulations that people want to, and can, enter their cars in.

Perhaps I am being thick but if the clubs were to grow up a bit and merge series (not JUST championships) together either of the own volition or under pressure from the MSA then we would all benefit.

There seems to be too many clubs just waiting and hoping that other series will collapse and they will be OK as a result.

[RMR]

Then maybe the whole problem is the MSA not dealing with the clubs underneath very well. Do you think the MSA should be responsible for re organising the clubs and championships or just let the clubs sort it out for themselves??

[JR Ewing]

The MSA don't care I think.

[Bob Pearson]

Two things completely baffle me.
1) How does the BRSCC stay alive
2) How can their heads be so deep in the sand that they cannot see what they are doing to themselves.

No complaints though about the BARC. Good value for money and helpful smiling faces to deal with.

[RMR]

2 questions i am asking the club now. they seem to ignore it and answer different issues.

i dont think many of the clubs/msa care as long as they make money, which puzzles me because brscc must be going broke

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by RMR


i dont think many of the clubs/msa care as long as they make money,

RMR, As a Committee member for one of the organising clubs mentioned in this thread I felt I had to reply here. OK we (the Committee I'm press officer for) don't organise races but we do organise sprints. We care very much about our competitors and each year we have a huge discussion about what we can offer them by way of discounts and entry fee reductions. We hope that by keeping these costs to a minimum we will get more people coming along to our sprints, which are IMHO very professionally organised. Of course, the other thing is that the cheaper our entry fees, the more people that will enter and the more money we make. Perhaps some of the other clubs who are charging you high entry fees ought to take note?

[RMR]

Delta, thats exactly the logical mentalty that the other clubs dont have. i completely agree with you. i did say many clubs not all mind you and was hoping to spark a reaction. thanks for replying, it is a shame the many other clubs dont have the same business logic or just basic commonsense.

[jamescrofts]

NO! I have been complaining about entry fees all year! When are they going to start paying us start money???

James

[greenamex2]

I suppose with my company director head on (doesn't come out very often, usually have my blow every penny I earn on racing head on!), if it was my business I would be thinking if I dropped entry fees by 10% am I going to gain at least 10% more entries?

In certain circumstances I KNOW this is going to be true. How Brands can justify charging more the Silverstone I don't know and I have heard people refuse to do it because of the cost.

This brings us back to series entries. If there were fewer more flexible series then the 'occasional competitor' may come out and play at more races local to them if they were cheaper and may do more of a series. Ergo more entries at each meeting and costs down/club profits up/more interesting racing for Joe Public.

Also circuits themselves really need to look at what they are providing it's customers. There is a distinct lack of 'American/Disney' thinking going on. They have the potential to acquire a captive audience and sell them lot's of fun things to do/buy but generally waste it. If they could make more money from other sources then they could reduce the cost of racing for the competitor which, again, should lead to more competitors doing more races.

And don't even get me started on adverising race meetings.

[Snapper Baz]

Changing the subject slightly, The Britcar/EERC championship run by James Tucker makes you think. I know there is (in club racing terms)a fairly hefty outlay to register for the championship but then surely, each driver must get more miles driving per £ per race than at an average National Championship? I'm only guessing here so I could be completely wrong, but if I'm not-I'm surprised not more racers have gone this route. Maybe with longer races mechanical costs will go up due to wear and tear etc but it might be worth thinking about when adding up cost per meeting.

[Rod Birley]

Message to RMR. BARC S/E would very much like you to race your single seater with them. 2 races for £118, no registration fee.

[james tucker]

Rod its no good going on and on about prices,you have done very well to get them down, but 10minute racing has had it day and will in time be used to fill in a program.you are paying £10 a minute and thats at Lydden??,to put on a race
it cost around £4000 per hour and to run a 10 minute race it takes 3/4 of an hour, THATS QUAL/CLEAN UP/ RACE AND CLEAN UP thats £3000 are you getting 30 cars to break even, I dont think so, clubs need to make a profit. Endurance racing pay 1/2 and will pay less than 1/2 next year,THATS £50 FOR YOUR 10 MINUTE RACE,
we race less often, but the cost is shared and each driver does 3 of your seasons in 8 races with less damage, less cost on high tuneing,I rest my cae.
sportingly
james

[JR Ewing]

******* Mr Tucker!

If you think £118 for a ten minute qually, a ten minute race and a twenty minute race is £10/minute you need a new calculator.

FYI most BARC SEC meets now are at Silverstone Stowe, and most have entry fees of exactly £100.

These longer distance races with god knows how many classes are just so boring - they're like glorified track days...

[Keith Wheeler]

Denis, you're spot on about 'flexible' series. As one of those potential 'occasional competitors I can rent a saloon car easily, but to race it in different championships would require membership of more than one organising club and constant changes to the car to meet the different series regs.
If every meeting had an 'all-comers' race, that would give me the opportunity to race when and where it was convenient.
Perhaps there should be an annual 'fee' that could be paid by occasional competitors, that was split between the organising clubs, that would allow me to race at any meeting of my choice, no matter which club had organised them? (I didn't put that very well, but I hope you get the drift?).

[vtti]

I have been looking at various championships entries and what they work out cost per minute. This ranges from £3.00 to £5.00 per minute and if I am correct EERC works out at £4.00 per minute.
This is the only comparison you can make as running costs vary within their own Championships let alone others.
I do not feel it is fair to say one Championship is better than another as it is a matter of like and choice, value for money is different for different people. If we all liked the same thing life would be boring.
Keith I understand what you are saying but clubs can only really organise championships for people dedicating themselves to one particular one rather than turning up every now again.

[greenamex2]

JR - I agree, although less strongly, that I have absolutely no desire to do 'endurance' racing. I often get offered 'corporate bribes' to go and watch them and always turn them down. Just not my, and many others, cup of tea. When I want to do this sort of thing I book the kit car in for a track day and generally much less than a couple of quid a minute.

James - On a per mile basis I whole heartedly agree that your series offers good value for money. Having has a look at your website it is just a pity it presents a very 'unofficial' image. The pincipal problem is the "cars allowed in if we feel like it". I have seen the results of these with cars being allowed in one minute and not the next. Not to mention the fact that my car wouldn't be allowed because it is 'only' a 1600.

On the subject of costs, I can't remember the last time we only had a 10 minute race! In our series we have a minimum mileage of 27 miles in the regs. This isn't always enforced at tiddlers like Lydden or Brands (we'd get dizzy!) but we can usually bank on a good 15 minutes. With the typical 15 minutes practice that means we are usually paying around 5 quid a minute or 50 quid for 10 minutes.

As for the 45 minutes of messing around for a 10 minute race, what ever happened to the racing ahead formats that were tried? I thought they were very succesful in pushing races through more quickly. Also another way of reducing entry fees!!!

I LIKE the idea of an allcomers race but generally don't do them because I am concentrating on a championship and can't risk the damage. Have done them in the past and will probably start doing them again now I am taking things less seriously and the car doesn't blow up quite so often now.

[JR Ewing]

I'd rather have 2x 15 minute races than 1 hour long race. The enduro is cheaper per pound but not excitement per minute

[Keith Wheeler]

vtti,
I understand about clubs organising championships wanting commitment from entrants, but surely it isn't too much trouble to put an allcomers race on the programme at most 'club' meetings, especially if it attracts a good field?
I'm not interested in registering for a championship because I can't race often enough, I would just like it to be easier to race locally occasionally.
The BRSCC have started introducing all comers races to some meetings, but apparently without much thought. At the Rockingham meeting in mid-August it was scheduled for Sunday (with the Uniroyal VW race), the day after all the other races, so everyone just wanted to go home on Saturday night. Also, scrutineering and qualifying was in the morning and then there was a 6 hour wait until after the VW race! An opportunity missed I feel.

[JR Ewing]

yeah they had a similar FF1600 non-champ race on the Sunday but no takers...