Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > North American Racing


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24 Sep 2014, 02:14 (Ref:3457056)   #61
Maelochs
Veteran
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,028
Maelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
" U.S. racing does not need anyone or thing from Europe any more than Europe needs the U.S. The only makes the average U.S. fan knows are Ferrari and Porsche; while if they do not show, no one truly cares, nor do or will they save, or destroy, U.S. racing."

I'd say that a brief perusal of historical records show otherwise. In sports car racing, Porsche, Jaguar, Ferrari, BMW, and Alfa Romeo have long been important players.

Australia? Well, I guess—but only if you count the complete domination of Can-Am by McLaren—until Porsche arrived.

Also, Sports Car fans (I don't know who you think "average" fans are, but I know who I have spoken and corresponded with) are very aware of Porsche, Audi, Ferrari and their impact on U.S. sports car racing ... and there is this race, Le mans? You might have heard of it. Pretty much every sports car fan I have every communicated with seems to think it is the premier sports car race on the planet.

When was it that sports car racing was bigger than everything else? The Indy 500, the Daytona 500, and the Monaco Grand Prix were for a decade about the only races shown on TV. Sports car racing might have had a sizeable community, but the Indy 500 and Daytona 500 got a quarter of a million fans showing up at the track every year. I doubt 250,000 people showed up at every sports car event combined in 1961 or 1963.

However, when the sports car scene really started growing in the U.S. after WW II ... it was European cars entirely, because American cars were obese, over-cushioned, underperforming boats. Except for the motors, which were put in hand-crafted or European chassis, there were no American anything except drivers in sports car racing.

Your examples of how well North American sports car racing works without any international relevance: ALMS after 2009, Rolex, and TUSC. Yahoo.

As for getting Detroit involved again ... you mean like Corvette and Viper? or are you referring to the GTP era, when Ford and Chevy raced ... Porsche and Toyota. As for taking out all the stupid BoP—I am right there with you on that. Thing is, it is the manufacturers who want the BoP, so I don't see that going away. Sadly.
Maelochs is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2014, 05:58 (Ref:3457089)   #62
Bob Riebe
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Minnesota
Posts: 2,351
Bob Riebe User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
" U.S. racing does not need anyone or thing from Europe any more than Europe needs the U.S. The only makes the average U.S. fan knows are Ferrari and Porsche; while if they do not show, no one truly cares, nor do or will they save, or destroy, U.S. racing."

I'd say that a brief perusal of historical records show otherwise. In sports car racing, Porsche, Jaguar, Ferrari, BMW, and Alfa Romeo have long been important players. -- I do not know how old you are but Alfa Romeo, BMW are bit players at very best with Alfa Romeo being a a foot note and BMW being a make that shows up for a bit and then leaves.
To an average U.S. racing fan, not just sport car fanatics, they are nothing.
Tracks and sanctions need more that hard core fans. Without the average fan, who will, and they used to, attend most any auto related event that is interesting, tracks lose money and series die.


Australia? Well, I guess—but only if you count the complete domination of Can-Am by McLaren—until Porsche arrived. -- Who mentioned Australia?
McLaren was from New Zealand.

Also, Sports Car fans (I don't know who you think "average" fans are, but I know who I have spoken and corresponded with) are very aware of Porsche, Audi, Ferrari and their impact on U.S. sports car racing ... and there is this race, Le mans? You might have heard of it. Pretty much every sports car fan I have every communicated with seems to think it is the premier sports car race on the planet. -- Go to a U.S. gearhead based car event, these draw thousands of people who love cars, and ask them what they know about Audi racing cars, or LeMans.
Most will know of the 24 hrs of LeMans. A small minority will know much beyond that is where Ford won with the GT.
Some will remember that John Greenwood was there with his radical Corvette.

Beyond that some many will know the 24 hrs of Daytona and possibly Sebring.
Ask what the Petit LeMans is and few will know, or care.
These are the people who love cars, work on their own cars, not just changing oil, that used to flock to U.S. road races en masse but quit when the series became pointless boring parades with no real competition, or had cars that mean nothing to them.


When was it that sports car racing was bigger than everything else? The Indy 500, the Daytona 500, and the Monaco Grand Prix were for a decade about the only races shown on TV. Sports car racing might have had a sizeable community, but the Indy 500 and Daytona 500 got a quarter of a million fans showing up at the track every year. I doubt 250,000 people showed up at every sports car event combined in 1961 or 1963. -- So what.
Neither U.S race is a road race and Indy draws tens of thousands of fewer paying spectators now than it once did.
What is your point?
The Trans-Am was the reason that all four U.S. auto corporations produced cars just for homologation for the series.

SCCA road racing used to draw 30,000 , or more, (Road America drew 30,000 fans to the Trans-Am in 1975 when the race had become a glorified A-B prod./sedan race) to road races at small tracks out in the boonies during its hay days for the Trans-Am and Can-Am when each series had eight to ten races.
SCCA road racing was a national series drawing national attention when NASCAR was still a regional series with only its two very high speed tracks, owned by the France family, that got much more than regional attention.


However, when the sports car scene really started growing in the U.S. after WW II ... it was European cars entirely, because American cars were obese, over-cushioned, underperforming boats. Except for the motors, which were put in hand-crafted or European chassis, there were no American anything except drivers in sports car racing. -- That is because most U.S. drivers were busting the butts, and often dying, on half-mile dirt tracks to get to Indy.
Road racing was non-paying elitist cult for the most part till USAC got into the fray for awhile.


Your examples of how well North American sports car racing works without any international relevance: ALMS after 2009, Rolex, and TUSC. Yahoo. -- Audi had not had real, non-bop bs, competition for years by then, neither did Chevrolet.
Boring parades do not bring fans. Tracks do not run races that do not make them money.
Only Penske money and the IMSA ignoring the ACO contrived competition rules for a bit, even kept it interesting that long.
IMSA/ALMS had a pretty good run up to 2003, especially when GARRA cut off its nose to spite its face with it DP rules, but it was slowly going down-hill from the get-go and after 2003 it started to snowball.




As for getting Detroit involved again ... you mean like Corvette and Viper? or are you referring to the GTP era, when Ford and Chevy raced ... Porsche and Toyota. As for taking out all the stupid BoP—I am right there with you on that. Thing is, it is the manufacturers who want the BoP, so I don't see that going away. Sadly.
No the manufacturers do not want the BoP, they want the BoP rules to favor them.
Big difference.
I am referring to when Detroit raced from 1967 to the mid-eighties with cars that were not contrived crap wagons controlled by a bs balance of performance farce.

Addendum:
It was John Bishop in the early post, not Jim.
Bob Riebe is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2014, 06:51 (Ref:3457097)   #63
Ephaeton
Veteran
 
Ephaeton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Austria
Between Österreichring and Nordschleife
Posts: 1,189
Ephaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe View Post
No the manufacturers do not want the BoP, they want the BoP rules to favor them.
Big difference.
I am referring to when Detroit raced from 1967 to the mid-eighties with cars that were not contrived crap wagons controlled by a bs balance of performance farce.

Addendum:
It was John Bishop in the early post, not Jim.
Bob, please quote properly. This is very hard to read, and quirky to quote oneself.

To the point: You mention the gearheads, the guys tuning their own cars etc. From my experience, the guys tuning their own cars etc. are just that, tuning-nerds. Just because someone uses money on placebo performance improvements or questionable styling cues for their road car(s) that they won't be able to use in 99% of their everyday lives doesn't mean they're sports car fans.
It's like expecting overclocking gamers to be ASIC designers, IMHO. So I wouldn't draw conclusions from their non-knowledge.
Ephaeton is offline  
__________________
Q: How to play religious roulette?
A: Stand around in a circle and blaspheme and see who gets struck by lightning first
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2014, 11:56 (Ref:3457159)   #64
Maelochs
Veteran
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,028
Maelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
"To an average U.S. racing fan, not just sport car fanatics, they are nothing."

Ywes but we are talking about sports car racing--maybe I didn't make that clear?

As for "average" racing fans (i.e. racing fans that do Not like sports car racing) they are no different than football or hockey fans: they do Not like sports car racing.

What they think about a sport which doesn't interest them is pretty much irrelevant.

Your point seems to be that only major U.S. factory involvement will bring us back to the late '60s ... but I'd say sports car racing was at its biggest and best in the U.S. in the late '70s to late '80s or so with Camel GT/GTP---both series which depended upon a large number of foreign cars.

Another point I raised earlier about selling performance cars: When U.S. autio manufacturers used Performance ans a chief selling point for quite a few cars in their product lines-- the Musclecar/Ponycar days---well, that just happened to be the same time they spent heavily in Trans-Am and Ford went to Le Mans.

Around 1972 the EPA, pollution controls, and skyrocketing fuel prices killed off the appeal of performance cars, and at no time since has selling really fast cars (or cars marketed as being really fast) been anywhere near as important to U.S. car buyers or manufacturers.

And unless the car-buying public suddenly sees the need to spend a bunch of money for performance capabilities which it can never use ... those days ain't coming back.

Nowadays you can buy a little turbocharged $25,000 Ford which will perform on par with a 1975 Porsche Turbo--the introductory model which pretty much changed the landscape for a while. Basically any hot hatch has performance capabilities way beyond most drivers' abilities to extract or exploit.

Most buyers simply don't see the need for 600 horsepower, and "high performance" is no longer a nationwide selling point for a large part of any manufacturer's line-up---it isn't what most people want or are willing to pay for.

That makes going racing a lot less appealing as a promotional venture, and particularly with the financial issues the Big Three have had (Chrysler sold, GM bailed out, Ford close to bankruptcy a few years back) U.S. autio makers are focused on what sells, not the pride and ego of the owners (such as which drove Ford to assault Le Mans.)

Also, when the Big Four (I remember the AMC Javelins) were producing all kinds of specialty performance models they were not being outsold by foreign competitiors. Even the biggest European marques barely had a foothold int eh U.S. and the Japanese were even smaller.

Since the early '70s Detroit has been getting its butt beat in sales by particularly the Japanese, and have not had the luxury of producing whatever kinds of cars they happened to dream up--and haven't had the luxury of blowing off big chunks of money in racing programs.

Like you, I can remember when U.S. car makers produced what were basically Homologation Specials---limited runs of NASCAR or Trans-Am themed cars designed solely to allow the factories to use higher-performance parts at the track.

Nowadays the money isn't there for that. The amount it costs to design and produce, and advertise and deliver very limited-appeal performance cars is way beyond what anyone would pay for them.

The fact that NASCAR races clones with tightoly controlled motors prevents any more 426 hemis, Superbirds or Charger Daytonas, or 427 Torinos or any of that fun stuff. As for road racing, it is even less popular, and it is thus even less profitable for factories to produce small-run specialty models based on it.

"If you build it they will come" might work in the movies, but GM and Ford aren;'t going to convince their accountants to spend heavily in road racing in order to attract a fan base which existed in 1967.

"Those days are gone forever, over a long time ago."
Maelochs is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2014, 14:15 (Ref:3457205)   #65
Fogelhund
Veteran
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Canada
Binbrook, ON Canada
Posts: 6,956
Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!
The peak of fan attendance for Road Racing was the late sixties and early seventies with Trans Am and Can Am, at least in North America.

Second, here are some posts from another board, from early in 2013 on the merger.

Quote:
It's like the K-mart/Sears deal... two failed businesses, put together with most of the same management, are going to do better as one business, with no new ideas?

*ALL* USCR has to do is offer a better global vision than the FIA or ACO of what sportscar racing should be like going forward... but it's the same guys that screwed it up the last go round. The brains to come up with better ideas aren't there.
Quote:
There is NO leadership in any of this. It's downright brutal.

I've said from the beginning that this needed a blueprint plan from the beginning, to show entrants, manufacturers, fans where this was going to go. A new combined plan for 2016 and on, that everyone can get behind instead of this Silo BS. It really is somewhat depressing how stupid the people running this sport are.

Meanwhile they spent a lot of time and money on a branding exercise, instead of working on the product. Dumb arses.
Fogelhund is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Sep 2014, 04:05 (Ref:3457428)   #66
Bob Riebe
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Minnesota
Posts: 2,351
Bob Riebe User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephaeton View Post
Bob, please quote properly. This is very hard to read, and quirky to quote oneself.
I merely corrected an error I made so what are you referring to.
Bob Riebe is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Sep 2014, 04:55 (Ref:3457433)   #67
Bob Riebe
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Minnesota
Posts: 2,351
Bob Riebe User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
"To an average U.S. racing fan, not just sport car fanatics, they are nothing."

Ywes but we are talking about sports car racing--maybe I didn't make that clear? -- Racing is racing.
I have gone to Pro road races, amateur road races, short track dirt and paved races, motorcycle dirt and road races.
The average U.S. racing fan is what kept road racing going in the seventies when the factories walked away.
They bought the tickets that payed the tracks bills.
If all they needed was road racing hard core fans, the IMSA series would not have gone belly up almost twenty years ago, nor would the ALMS or GARRA.


As for "average" racing fans (i.e. racing fans that do Not like sports car racing) they are no different than football or hockey fans: they do Not like sports car racing. -- Just where do you get that information from, or is that just biased arrogance?

What they think about a sport which doesn't interest them is pretty much irrelevant. --Really now.
They are the ones who spent, what would be in todays money, millions of dollars for tickets by attending road races.
Tell track owners they are irrelevant and they will either laugh or cry at your ignorance of what they need to pay their bills.
They are the ones keeping multiple drag racing sanctions quite healthy.
They are also the same people who when I was young used to go to road races but now do not for the same reason they no longer go to current SCCA amateur races.
Spec. racing is boring on its best day.
And yes, I got them to spend money on SCCA amateur Nationals at Donnybrooke and Road America, more than once because some cars racing were the same basic cars they were driving.


Your point seems to be that only major U.S. factory involvement will bring us back to the late '60s ... I do not care about the factory boys but the regs. should be for cars built off of street cars, not tube-frame or carbon-framed funny cars.
Prototypes have never held as much fascination for me as sedan/GT cars.
Privateers kept racing going in the seventies and the fact they have been driven out is one reason racing has become lack luster.


Another point I raised earlier about selling performance cars: When U.S. autio manufacturers used Performance ans a chief selling point for quite a few cars in their product lines-- the Musclecar/Ponycar days---well, that just happened to be the same time they spent heavily in Trans-Am and Ford went to Le Mans. -- No it really started with the light weight full sized cars by Chrysler, Ford and GM for drag racing. Long before the Trans-Am, and years before Ford won at Daytona and LeMans.
GM tried to kill such cars but the back door boys kept on, keeping on.
Chevy also built the Corvette SS and Ford built racing versions of the two-seat Thunderbird.


Around 1972 the EPA, pollution controls, and skyrocketing fuel prices killed off the appeal of performance cars, and at no time since has selling really fast cars (or cars marketed as being really fast) been anywhere near as important to U.S. car buyers or manufacturers. -- That is bs.
That is the story I heard when I studied auto mechanics.
Yet Detroit kept at it slowly at first and now they are producing so called muscle cars at a rate exceeding the sixties and early seventies.
The supposed NEED is no greater or lessor than it was fifty years ago.


And unless the car-buying public suddenly sees the need to spend a bunch of money for performance capabilities which it can never use ... those days ain't coming back.---- It is not no different than it was then, even with the government sticking its nose where it does not belong.


Most buyers simply don't see the need for 600 horsepower, and "high performance" is no longer a nationwide selling point for a large part of any manufacturer's line-up-- -It isn't nor was it ever, what most people want or are willing to pay for. Most buyers never did, but car companies produced them because even people who cannot afford them pay attention, or they simply would not build them.

As I said, Chevy, Dodge and Ford are now building and selling produciton race cars for drag racing because there is a market they want to be in.
If the production of the non-streetable, no vin, cars did not help sell street cars, they would not build them.
Drag racing NOW has the interest and investment from Detroit that road racing once had.
``
Bob Riebe is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Sep 2014, 11:13 (Ref:3457509)   #68
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,713
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe View Post
I merely corrected an error I made so what are you referring to.
It's not a reference to specific post but general quoting, yours (and Maeloch's) posts are difficult to read as you don't quote correctly
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Sep 2014, 12:21 (Ref:3458876)   #69
HJJ
Veteran
 
HJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United States
Hoschburg, just outside of Brasleburg.
Posts: 1,711
HJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Ford looking ahead to 2017 (in vague Jamie Allison terms).

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/10916...-power-in-2017
HJJ is offline  
__________________
It's great to be here!
Quote
Old 30 Sep 2014, 12:57 (Ref:3458885)   #70
wdave0
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
United States
NY
Posts: 793
wdave0 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridwdave0 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unfortunately for us US road racing is a tiny slice of market for American manufacturers. Both GM and Ford are spending big bucks on NASCAR teams and lesser on multiple TUSCC teams but now a lot of money goes into series outside the US, Ford in WRC, Ford and Chevy (Cruze) in WTC, Ford and GM(Vauxhall) in BTCC etc. The money is going where it will get results, and unlike the 60's and 70's is not concentrated in the US, to our loss.
wdave0 is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Sep 2014, 14:44 (Ref:3458909)   #71
Rodger Davies
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Wales
Bradford, UK
Posts: 3,028
Rodger Davies has a real shot at the podium!Rodger Davies has a real shot at the podium!Rodger Davies has a real shot at the podium!Rodger Davies has a real shot at the podium!Rodger Davies has a real shot at the podium!
A lot of those decisions are made on a more local or regional basis though, not necessarily the NA arm.

Also, Ford stopped supporting WRC (the 'works' team is M-Sport, funded by their private sales), Chevy in WTCC is a RML private affair and I didn't know Vauxhall or Ford even have those other programmes. Just to be pedantic.
Rodger Davies is offline  
__________________
Eat Sportscars
Sleep Sportscars
Drink Gulf
Quote
Old 30 Sep 2014, 14:55 (Ref:3458911)   #72
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 10,525
joeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
In the most recent print version of Racer Mag, there was an article about future P2 regs globally, and how the new coupes (Ligier, HPD, Dome, Oreca) haven't been told they will be legal in 2017. There are also some quotes from Mike Shank about how these regulations will apply to IMSA. He specifically mentions Jim France wants brandable bodywork, but the ACO isn't thrilled with that idea.

Of course we keep hearing IMSA and the ACO/FIA are working together to develop the 2017 regs, but does anybody here think IMSA will be 100% aligned with the ACO on these regs come 2017? Shank somewhat alludes to this by mentioning that the rules need to make sure to have a "generic" body to use if a US team wants to run in Europe, or vice versa.

For me this is one of the problems with the discussion. If the fully developed Ligier, Oreca, HPD, Dome, etc. bodywork is called "generic" simply because it doesn't have an OEM grill and headlights, I can't see IMSA and the ACO aligning their interests. The cars aren't "generic", they are proper race cars.
joeb is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Sep 2014, 15:08 (Ref:3458915)   #73
ptclaus98
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
United States
Posts: 1,765
ptclaus98 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Or they could adopt the SGT/DTM Class 1 ruleset which has cars that run in Europe and Asia and are brand specific.
ptclaus98 is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Sep 2014, 15:17 (Ref:3458916)   #74
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,713
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
In my eyes they in fact only become 'generic' once they receive the DP makeover and get bopped according to that attribute...

Anyhow I'm not sure if Shank understands the concept of LMP2 in the first place.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Sep 2014, 15:56 (Ref:3458922)   #75
Maelochs
Veteran
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,028
Maelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
All these cars will become "generic" if they force every manufacturer to build Identical chassis, the way Rolex tried to. What I fear is that IMSA pressure will lead FIA-ACO to adopt truly generic chassis and body—where every car has to submit bodywork for aero testing, and all bodywork has to be within a narrow performance range (Rolex did this, ridiculous as it sounds) and all chassis regs are defined so narrowly that every chassis is effectively a carbon (fiber) copy of every other.

This is what Rolex actually did, and even though it failed, I don't think the former Rolex officials ruining (not a typo) TUSC today have learned any lessons at all. Basically, they had and still want a field of absolutely identical cars, with absolutely identical performance—the same aero, the same engine performance (really, horsepower and torque curves pre-determined?) with the lowest common denominator—the worst "styling cue" bodywork—determining the performance of the whole field.

This is so far removed from the actual sports, and even from FIA-ACO's cost-capped P2 regs currently in operation, it seems ridiculous, but this is exactly what Jim France et al are lobbying for.

The problem is, even if FIA-ACO adopts even a portion of these rules, it kills the sport.

FIA-ACO might not allow "brandable bodywork" but if they give in on individual chassis and bodywork, if they accept "generic" bodywork which all has to perform the same on every car, we will be watching NASCAR with right turns—essentially spec racers with absolutely nothing about the cars which matter from the first engineering drawing to the last race of the season. Might as well buy identical Kias off the nearest dealer's lot and race them.

I don't think FIA-ACO will buy the whole TUSC proposal, but if the go for most of it, the North American arm of the sport is over. WEC will be fine, because it has ZP1 where real sports car racing can still survive, and P2 is just a secondary class. In North America, we will have a second-best version of second best. Why even bother?

I fully expect TUSC to allow "brandable bodywork" whether FIA-ACO allows it or not—teams would buy a complete car from the manufacturer and then buy (subsidized no doubt) banded panels from the engine supplier (if it were Chevy or Ford—I don't see Nissan or Honda wasting cash on this crap.) However, if the current P2s are merely grandfathered for a few years and totally generic "P2" spec chassis and bodywork is mandated ... Well, PWC might consider adding an enduro series, because the crowd will be there.
Maelochs is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2016 Moto GP macca Bike Racing 4 17 Mar 2016 21:36
IndyCar + LMP1 + Formula E -> IMSA CanAm 2017 NaBUru38 Sportscar & GT Racing 12 26 Apr 2013 15:58
2013-2017 V8SA Tyre Tender GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 6 23 Mar 2011 19:39


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.