Sir Lewis Hamilton is the GOAT

[Akrapovic]

Ah the old "someone displaying a view prominently is forcing it on other people" point of view. Been a while for that one.

I'd be interested in examples of how Lewis forces his views upon other people.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Sometimes quote tags help so I apologise for the confusion.

Gave me a giggle, anyway.....

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Ah the old "someone displaying a view prominently is forcing it on other people" point of view. Been a while for that one.

I'd be interested in examples of how Lewis forces his views upon other people.

It's almost as if his social media posts are optional and no-one is forced to subscribe to them....

TBH I don't much care what any driver says when the helmet is off, but Lewis has a platform and the right to use it as he sees fit.

Plenty of other sports people do the same, but if they post views that posters agree with, they get given a free pass

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by codename_47

It's almost as if his social media posts are optional and no-one is forced to subscribe to them....

TBH I don't much care what any driver says when the helmet is off, but Lewis has a platform and the right to use it as he sees fit.

Plenty of other sports people do the same, but if they post views that posters agree with, they get given a free pass

What odd is that everyone should really agree with what LH is saying, but they don't....

[gert]

Originally Posted by "Sebastian Vettel

Lewis Hamilton is the biggest of our/this time period.
To compare Fangio or Moss with our generation would be impossible and just make no sense.
Maybe we would sh*t our pants in their cars, and they would perform worse in our cars because they're way faster. Who knows?
It doesn't even matter.

Each time period had its own driver or drivers, and for ours that is Lewis.
For me personally, just emotionally, Michael Schumacher will forever be the greatest. But there is no doubt that Lewis is the greatest if you look at what he has achieved result-wise"

I think I'm with Vettel on this one, except for the "emotianally, MS is the greatest" part.

[Adam43]

Yep, Vettel is right on the comparison part. And right on the Hamilton in this era.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by codename_47

It's almost as if his social media posts are optional and no-one is forced to subscribe to them....

TBH I don't much care what any driver says when the helmet is off, but Lewis has a platform and the right to use it as he sees fit.

Plenty of other sports people do the same, but if they post views that posters agree with, they get given a free pass

Originally Posted by JamesH

What odd is that everyone should really agree with what LH is saying, but they don't....

Agree with both. Would like to add that Lewis isn't the only one who talks about these topics. But he is the only one criticised for them. Nobody has made a peep about Vettels helmet.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by GT6

Well i still do not actually like him, but you have to admit that was a championship drive for sure, currently no one else on his level.

😂😂😂😂😂 them bloody poms.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Nige was all balls of steel and emotion.

Lewis is the complete package.

Yes, I have bitten.

No, this isn't true. There was way more to him than balls of steel and emotion. All of that stuff is relative to guys like Prost, Piquet and alike. It's never acknowledged because we live through generalisations.

There are many factors that contribute to winning, and those reasons are also fluid.

Lewis Hamilton is understandably considered to be better, and so would Schumacher as both have accumulated the same stats. But I don't think it's as obvious as the following responses have made out.

One of the reasons Schumacher gets lauded is for hauling up a minnow team like Ferrari to a WC win. That was in his 5th year at Ferrari. Mansell's second stint at Williams is a far more impressive rise. He doesn't get credited for it though.

Mansell gets diminished because of how good the FW14B was. That's understandable, but it was only for one year. Hamilton has had the equivalent of the 14B for 7 years. Mansell's 92 season was the most comprehensive season from a WC winning driver, even thought he's been statistically bettered numerous times since. The biggest difference between the two is opportunity.

It's be interesting for me to find out what Hamilton and Schumacher can do in a racing car that Mansell couldn't. I'm surprised with how confident some of you are with your replies.

[Knowlesy]

Mansell isn't diminished because of FW14B. Nobody could have done a better job in that car, apart from Senna. It was made for a driver like him. I think Prost was vastly superior to Mansell overall but, had they partnered in 1993, Alain probably isn't a four time champ because Nigel was the active Williams.

The balls and emotion comment isn't a criticism. It was Mansell's biggest weapon that dragged him to his greatest feats. But it was also his downfall in many situations. But it is a funny one: take away his impetuosity and he might make a better fist of things at Ferrari alongside Prost and he probably puts Piquet to bed with a bit more ease at Williams (rather than winding himself up over normal team politics) but you maybe also lose the peaks and he possibly ends up as Thierry Boutsen with a moustache, a tidy winner but not a champ.

Overall, I think he achieved exactly what a driver of his level should have.

He also had the best car by miles in 1986 and 1987 and, arguably, the best one in 1990 and 1991 so no real lack of opportunity there.

Nige could probably do things with a car that no other driver could. But could he do them often enough to take on a peak Schumacher or Hamilton? Absolutely not in my opinion.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

It's be interesting for me to find out what Hamilton and Schumacher can do in a racing car that Mansell couldn't. I'm surprised with how confident some of you are with your replies.

They are as confident in their replies as you are in your assertions. It's called discussion and or debate. The entire proposition viz Lewis or anyone else is subjective, there is no right or wrong.

[coppice]

Mansell could thrill on his day - I saw his first win and was at Stowe in 87 , But he had many days when he didn't thrill at all , when he looked like he'd never win a GP , and that omission would be all someone - anyone- else's fault but his.

Hamilton , bare stats aside (as ultimately all they can do is to highlight that an apple is not a pear ) has looked like a winner since he first got into an F1 car.

But , as I said earlier , all that really matters to me is the thrill a driver can offer - and many of my best thrills aren't GOAT candidates, nor even drives in a GP . Sato in F3 at Croft , Peterson in F2 at Mallory , a fired up Mark Blundell in FF1600 at Cadwell and Rosberg's 1985 pole at Silverstone are far more memorable than any spreadsheet heroes

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by coppice

Mansell could thrill on his day - I saw his first win and was at Stowe in 87 , But he had many days when he didn't thrill at all , when he looked like he'd never win a GP , and that omission would be all someone - anyone- else's fault but his.

Hamilton , bare stats aside (as ultimately all they can do is to highlight that an apple is not a pear ) has looked like a winner since he first got into an F1 car.

But , as I said earlier , all that really matters to me is the thrill a driver can offer - and many of my best thrills aren't GOAT candidates, nor even drives in a GP . Sato in F3 at Croft , Peterson in F2 at Mallory , a fired up Mark Blundell in FF1600 at Cadwell and Rosberg's 1985 pole at Silverstone are far more memorable than any spreadsheet heroes

Montoya reminds me of Mansell. On his on days, he was epic on a level that nobody could beat. On his off days, he was average. Mansell had more on days than JPM. But they're similar.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

It's be interesting for me to find out what Hamilton and Schumacher can do in a racing car that Mansell couldn't. I'm surprised with how confident some of you are with your replies.

Not persuaded. Still 100% confident. But I respect the fact that you're entitled to your opinion.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gert

I think I'm with Vettel on this one, except for the "emotianally, MS is the greatest" part.

He's allowed to get emotional, we all do and it plays a big part in how we perceive things, especially something like this.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Montoya reminds me of Mansell. On his on days, he was epic on a level that nobody could beat. On his off days, he was average. Mansell had more on days than JPM. But they're similar.

Knowlesy will confirm that I was no Montoya fan and thus I'd take issue with your opinion. I once watched him at Silverstone just roll over and give the race to MS, something Mansell would never have contemplated.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Mansell isn't diminished because of FW14B. Nobody could have done a better job in that car, apart from Senna. It was made for a driver like him. I think Prost was vastly superior to Mansell overall but, had they partnered in 1993, Alain probably isn't a four time champ because Nigel was the active Williams.

The balls and emotion comment isn't a criticism. It was Mansell's biggest weapon that dragged him to his greatest feats. But it was also his downfall in many situations. But it is a funny one: take away his impetuosity and he might make a better fist of things at Ferrari alongside Prost and he probably puts Piquet to bed with a bit more ease at Williams (rather than winding himself up over normal team politics) but you maybe also lose the peaks and he possibly ends up as Thierry Boutsen with a moustache, a tidy winner but not a champ.

Overall, I think he achieved exactly what a driver of his level should have.

He also had the best car by miles in 1986 and 1987 and, arguably, the best one in 1990 and 1991 so no real lack of opportunity there.

Nige could probably do things with a car that no other driver could. But could he do them often enough to take on a peak Schumacher or Hamilton? Absolutely not in my opinion.

Superbly surmised 👌

[Knowlesy]

Light the blue touch paper!

Mansell wasn't immune to chucking the towel in himself to be fair, literally parking healthy cars when he had had enough.

But he got the world title in the end so I guess it doesn't matter too much.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

The thing is, I'd have argued that up until he had to fight Ferrari, Hamilton himself was very prone to choking on his emotions. Only once Rosberg left and he could settle into a de factor number 1 role in the team (since Bottas is both not up to challenging Hamilton across a season, nor does he seem to have the selfish steeliness that Rosberg had) to tackle a genuine threat from the outside has he matured into the almighty force he is today. The Hamilton of 2017 onwards is a far superior athlete than the Hamilton of previous seasons.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

The thing is, I'd have argued that up until he had to fight Ferrari, Hamilton himself was very prone to choking on his emotions. Only once Rosberg left and he could settle into a de factor number 1 role in the team (since Bottas is both not up to challenging Hamilton across a season, nor does he seem to have the selfish steeliness that Rosberg had) to tackle a genuine threat from the outside has he matured into the almighty force he is today. The Hamilton of 2017 onwards is a far superior athlete than the Hamilton of previous seasons.

Was Rosberg selfish, or was it more to do with not wanting to play second fiddle to Hamilton? After all, he had been with Mercedes since the outset.

[Peter Mallett]

Well, Rosberg did admit to having to change his approach in order to succeed against Hamilton, whether that equates to selfishness or just sheer ambition is irrelevant really.

[Knowlesy]

His approach appeared to be wandering round the engine facility chucking bolts and swarf into the #44 power units when nobody was looking the sly old viper.

But that was definitely an important year for Lewis. Has he wasted a point that matters since? Can't be more than ten. You need points on the board for when the engine goes bang.

[GORDON STREETER]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, You could argue that Fangio, who won his five titles over a seven-year period in the 1950s is better, because Hamilton has only won titles at two teams to Fangio’s four

[Knowlesy]

Is that really a spanner in the works? Not exactly outlandish.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Just to throw a spanner in the works, You could argue that Fangio, who won his five titles over a seven-year period in the 1950s is better, because Hamilton has only won titles at two teams to Fangio’s four

A point alluded to by Toto Wolf yesterday which is why he said "greatest of this time". He actually said he couldn't get into comparing Fangio or Senna etc.