DTM 2021

[thetool]

Unless you are an amateur series, like British GT for example, GT3 is the formula of failure. Extremely easy to drive cars specifically tailored to the gentleman driver.

GTE spec would have been a better choice. Slightly faster cars, but more importantly, cars aimed at professional drivers.

[Matt K]

I still haven't watched the races although I'm planning to. GT3 cars are okay and a 'sprint' series based on this (meaning no driver changes) is a nice idea but. I've been a DTM fan for many years and I wish them well but there's feeling that GT3 DTM is a bit 'without identity'. I feel maybe it'd have been better to make a 'gap' year and re-think what DTM is supposed to be after Class One era. Joining forces with Supercars seems a realistic idea and the one that would be more in line with DTM's traditions and identity.

[helgi]

I was looking for an interview made in 2019 or 2020 (?) with a former DTM driver who said that there always had been strange situations during week-ends - like some drivers win on their birthdays. Quite remarkable that DTM keeps at least one of its landmarks.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by thetool

Unless you are an amateur series, like British GT for example, GT3 is the formula of failure. Extremely easy to drive cars specifically tailored to the gentleman driver.

GTE spec would have been a better choice. Slightly faster cars, but more importantly, cars aimed at professional drivers.

100% disagree with this.

[ivozet]

DTM, what a weak series. Same times at Monza as Blancpain, Gtopen and so on.
What they actually doing? In Germany GT3 is presented by ADAC GT. Rivals on Sro?

[Racing Harz]

Originally Posted by ivozet

What they actually doing?

Talking ****, beeing arrogant and have dull races.

[NaBUru38]

Race 1 was extremely boring. Race 2 highlights had a single overtake, so I guess it was even worse.


Standings:

1. RSA Kelvin van der Linde (Audi)
2. NZL Liam Lawson (Ferrari)
3. SUI Nico Müller (Audi)
4. MON Vincent Abril (Mercedes-AMG)
5. THA Alexander Albon (Ferrari)
6. GER Maximilian Götz (Mercedes-AMG)
7. AUT Lucas Auer (Mercedes-AMG)
8. RSA Sheldon van der Linde (BMW)
9. GER Marco Wittmann (BMW)
10. ESP Daniel Juncadella (Mercedes-AMG)

[hoffman66]

Its a stupid idea using GT3 cars anyway, seems they did it as they really didn't have a choice other than the cancel the series,

Damn shame, but a bit like wTCC became, it is pretty much dead, so let it die.

[Matt K]

I've just watched the first race of the weekend and as a DTM fan I have to say I'm disappointed. I mean, I was keen on the idea of switching to GT3 cars and saw it as quite of a chance. And yes, this 'touring car' format works ok for GT3 cars.
An asset of the new DTM is the grid - strong drivers, recognisable names and established, successful teams. That's good.
Racing was ok, I mean, it's difficult to hope for BTCC-style action in hour long races and GT3 cars but there were some good battles and overtaking maneouvres. The race (I can't yet tell about the second one) may not have been the most fascinating or thrilling but it's not a reason to say that the format doesn't work - ADAC GT or Supercars, F1 or even BTCC don't always have thrillers.

What seems to be the biggest disappointment is the identity of the championship. Yes, the logo's the same, some of the drivers as well. Yes, I did expect it to be a lot different (stupid to think otherwise) but there's a feeling of it being some kind of a 'demo' product. It's not the same DTM anymore and it's tough to look for substitutes. The race was shown in an incredibly dull way. Is this the best, most professional, most high-level, high-profile GT3 championship in the world? Definitely not by look of the stream.
Ok, I may be a bit picky right now but the PR team of the DTM did a very poor job in my opinion. They have to be aware that the biggest tool of the DTM (strong, one-of-a-kind cars) is gone. They have to be aware also that they're not the only one GT3 series in the world. But what was in this race that I can't get in ADAC GT for example? Yes, a one-driver format and I like it. Yes, some of the biggest GT/touring car names (but to be fair ADAC GT also has a few of them) but what else?
The stream was very, very poor. Running order refreshing after a lap? Really? In 2021? Not even once did they show lap times of frontrunners, there were no pit stop times either. It made following the race difficult. How did it happen that Lawson ran P5 and after his pitstop was a virtual leader? The power of undercut, a stronger pace before a pit stop already, a much faster pit stop? The guy interviewing drivers before the race was dreadful, the interviews were boring and generic. Very few sponsor banners around the track. Not even a name of the driver when watching an onboard. I know, these are little things and maybe I'm the only one who focuses on them. And I've watched the English stream, maybe the German TV product was a lot better.
But take Supercars streams for example. The commentators, pit reporters, lots of sponsors' logos, great shots of action on the track, it's like a Hollywood production in comparison to this. It may be unimportant for many but for me it's just a part of the championship's appeal.
If DTM wants to make a success out of its new era, it must try a lot harder because watching the first race of the season there was an impression of just some random GT3 race in Italy with quite a low-quality stream of the race that happened to have quite a few renowned names. Definitely not the 'best and fastest GT3 series in the world.'

[Racing Harz]

Originally Posted by Matt K

maybe the German TV product was a lot better.

No.

[AndrewCherry]

I watched the few minute highlight packages, because I was racing this weekend anyway. From what I saw of those, I don't think I'll bother tuning in again. Were the cars quicker/more powerful than standard GT3? I've no way of knowing, the camera work certainly didn't tell me. Was there great racing? No idea, probably not, the highlights were so short there wasn't really time to tell.

As said, there's already some very strong GT3 series out there - GTWorld*, ADAC, even British GT etc. has some good racing. The driver names in this aren't "bigger" (not that this bothers me much), the racing isn't noticeably better, and I can't really see the appeal. A relatively small field, a limited number of manufacturers, and uninspiring production (which, if I wanted the full races, I apparently have to pay for - quite a lot it seems). I've no idea why I would.

[canaglia]

Considering time of pole positions, they are likely using a similiar SRO bop without any rumored big hp boost. Just like gt-open, they were able to run in 1.46 because of michelin tires.
Manufacturers didn't even want to upgrade their cars clutch/transmission to have traditional dtm standing starts, so interest about this new format is really low in general.

[Bcarr6]

I wonder if the DTM needs to spend less of its budget on flying a helicopter around for some fairly unnecessary aerial footage and spend it instead on some on-screen AWS racer stats. Oh, wait, their biggest rival probably has a monopoly on that..

Having watched the races, I'm not ready to completely slate the series, but I hardly have a glowing review.

PROS

- The format. 50-60 mins of single driver head to head is nice

- The Competition. For the most part, the quality of the top 2/3 of the field is high, and the DTM could chisel itself out a niche for being PRO only, especially as the SRO Group move the opposite way towards giving AM's more of the cake.

- The Cars. Look, the on site advertising was pretty lacklustre, but the majority of cars have fairly substantial full car backing on board. This has always been a hallmark of the DTM. Its also hard to argue in my mind as a sportscar fan that GT3 is anything other than a brilliant class. Cons to follow on the cars...


CONS

- The cars. Let's just shut up about these being the fastest greatest GT3 cars in the world. They are GT3 cars, a very standised category, BOP moves things marginally forward from SRO maybe, but a quick google shows Kelvin van der Linde's 1'46.604 pole time for race two is more than a second slower than the 1'45.470 Henrique Chaves set in his Mclaren 720s GT3 in GT Open at Monza in 2020.

So, faster?? No.

This is a global spec used by many series, DTM's big headedness forces them to fluff up nonsense regualrly. But this should be seen as another completely standard GT3 series.

- The package. Firstly, this isnt any longer unique enough to warrant pay to view. Only the WEC and F1 can justify it, and theres stilla debate to be had for those as to whether it helps or hinders. For the DTM, the pay to view package is going to be a big drag on their figure. Why pay to see the same cars, go round the same track as you see in GTWC, GT Open, Italian GT for free. The overall production didnt warrant it either.

- The racing. others have said it more harshly, but there has always been some questionable occurrences in the DTM, maybe coincidental, but they happen enough to make you wonder.



Overall, while ill probably watch this series because I enjoy GT3's I wouldnt rank it anywhere as highly as GTWC or ADAC GT.

If we were to rank european GT3 series as it stands i'd put them as follows, which doesnt bode too well for the mighty (!) DTM.

Top Tier
GTWC / ADAC GT / British GT

Second Tier
GT Open / Italian GT / DTM



I think we now just have a few too many GT3 series in Europe. Ignoring the national series like British GT, ADAC, and Italian GT, there is 3 big GT3 series travelling Europe.

Looking at how average GT Opens grids are this year, itd almost make sense at this point to merge DTM and GT Open. A combo of the two would be worthwhile as an alternative to SRO formats, but we really dont need both neccessarily.

[S griffin]

DTM is still going well and has lots going for it, just needs to keep an eye on things.

We'll see what happens for the rest of the season. It's a new beginning, but the potential is there. We have got plenty of top quality drivers going at it over a good distance. And plenty of top class teams too, so it's looking good. So hopefully that's a sign of a good season ahead

I think we should give these cars a chance, it could work. It should be about entertainment more than anything. I am keeping my fingers crossed for the series. It's still the no. 1 race series in Germany. Although I do worry where the series will be in a few years. It's fine in it's own right like F1 and WEC and other tin top series. Viewers will still tune in. But we'll see. As long as we have plenty of top drivers and great prestige it can keep going for now. I just hope the rest of the season is exciting enough

So let's just enjoy the series while it lasts, it's better than nothing. DTM just needs to concentrate on keeping the quality in the series, but that's easier said than done. I do think it should offer something different from other GT3 series, otherwise there is no point. But it could work. Series can co exist

I agree on GT Open, I think that might be on it's way out. It could merge with DTM, wouldn't be the worst move ever

[canaglia]

dtm brings the pro's, gt-open brings the am's... what you would get?
a BES clone...

[WyldStallion]

DTM graphics were very poor and generic. Only 1 commentator? Seriously? Where are the clear voiced radio commentary feeds from teh team managers and drivers? The TV production needs to step up if they want to be considered higher profile.

Otherwise I like it becasue I love GT racing. Series could use a Porsche entry badly right now.

[WyldStallion]

I would not put DTM in a tier with GT Open though. I think it ranks above them. GT Word Challenge Europe is clearly the top tier of GT racing globally. Always will be. IMSA GTD Pro won't even match them ever I think.

[WyldStallion]

Another DTM issue. Hyping Sophia Floresch. She was a regular last place runner during the Monza races. She is not bad driver, she don't spin the car out and such. But she is a tick slower than the likes of Juncadella, Buhk, and the Van der Lindes. So in a field of this driver qulity, that puts her in the back.

How did this American Dev Gore end up in DTM? There are a hundred american sportscar drivers that could do better than him right now in DTM I think. Poor Joey Hand who can't find a ride would be a top half of the field runner in this grid. Must be $$$.

[rubberduck]

It's been said time and time again: DTM is a steaming pile of ****.
It has been artificially kept afloat for at least 10-15 years by their TV contract alone or the media blitz being derived from its undeserved, yet never questioned myth of being an important series, respectively.

Haven't we all been spoonfed about how GT3 is explicitly not factory-sport? So how can anyone be surprised that this comedyshow burns down once it's asking private entities to feed money into a scheme that was and still is made to produce industry-scale headlines for the uneducated public? While at the same time there are a bazillion better, more prestigious alternatives available specifically tailored for pro-but-not-works-pro teams?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

Another DTM issue. Hyping Sophia Floresch. She was a regular last place runner during the Monza races. She is not bad driver, she don't spin the car out and such. But she is a tick slower than the likes of Juncadella, Buhk, and the Van der Lindes. So in a field of this driver qulity, that puts her in the back.

How did this American Dev Gore end up in DTM? There are a hundred american sportscar drivers that could do better than him right now in DTM I think. Poor Joey Hand who can't find a ride would be a top half of the field runner in this grid. Must be $$$.

agree, I suspect DTM and WEC give lot of visibility to Floresch simply to appear ethically more "open" and "inclusive" in modern days where motorsport is still usually seen and perceived as a man-centric world, it's a bit cynical to say but it's what I honestly think.
Stupid part of this issue is that about 10 years ago, dtm had already 2 women on grid, who were better drivers than floresh, and nobody actually cared

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by S griffin

DTM is still going well

No it's not otherwise they had not switched to GT3.

[S griffin]

They needed to do something, there wasn’t much wrong before, but they needed to keep it sustainable, so now we have a series that still has enough going for it, especially in terms of teams and drivers and the cars have been impressive so far

[NaBUru38]

The GTWC Sprint Cup Zandvoort race had just 7 platinum drivers, and two of them were paired to bronze drivers. There was just one Platinum/Gold pair and two Gold/Gold pairs.


The DTM has a much stronger grid.

[S griffin]

Exactly, there’s more amateur series about. I don’t think the DTM should worry. It’s not really comparable to other GT3 series, it’s got the same amount of driver quality last year, which is high

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Exactly, there’s more amateur series about. I don’t think the DTM should worry. It’s not really comparable to other GT3 series, it’s got the same amount of driver quality last year, which is high

DTM: audi, mercedes, bmw work drivers
GTWC: audi, mercedes, bmw, porsche, ferrari, lamborghini work drivers (not to mention that most of dtm drivers are in GTWC too)