[Official] Monaco Grand Prix 2019: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[Aysedasi]

It's all part and parcel of F1 these days. Hamilton wears his heart on his sleeve when he's in the cockpit, particularly when he's under the cosh. But he still delivers. I'd rather hear him saying what he says than not at all, whether he's looking for drama or otherwise. I don't understand why views about him are so dramatic, perhaps we're the ones in search of drama......

[gert]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

So nobody else caught Lewis post race in interview saying "I was never pitting"? After all the whining about wanting to pit, needing tires, etc, he says that post race. It perfectly encapsulates why, although an incredible driver, I cant stand him. He's like a teenage girl, always looking for drama.

I think I heard or interpreted it the way you did, although I was certainly not helped by the French-speaking commentator talking through both question and answer to translate what was being asked and answered.
IIRC Lewis said something like "I was never going to pit. It was either win or crash" but something may have been lost or added in translation (quite literally, this time)

[Compromised]

Speaking of track changes, is there any liability in regards to Monaco being a faux grade 1 circuit?

Driver/Marshall/spectator gets seriously/fatally hurt at a track where saftey standards are knowingly breached - sounds like a lawyers picnic

[Taxi645]

https://f1bytes.com/monaco-gp-form-guide/

"When it comes to the race for podium positions overtaking is extremely rare. In the past 12 years there have only been four overtakes for position in the top three. Of these four only one was a legitimate overtake:

2016 Hamilton over Rosberg for 2nd – team order
2014 Raikkonen over Vettel for 3rd – gearbox issue for Seb
2008 Hamilton over Raikkonen for 3rd – pitlane penalty
2006 Raikkonen over Webber for 2nd – A LEGITMATE overtake as Webber ran wide"

One legitimate overtake for the podium in 12 years (13 including this years)! One!! So spare us the instant gratification nonsense. 13 years is not an instant.

As said it should be hard, extremely hard, but not practically impossible.


P.S. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Portier

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

https://f1bytes.com/monaco-gp-form-guide/

"When it comes to the race for podium positions overtaking is extremely rare. In the past 12 years there have only been four overtakes for position in the top three. Of these four only one was a legitimate overtake:

2016 Hamilton over Rosberg for 2nd – team order
2014 Raikkonen over Vettel for 3rd – gearbox issue for Seb
2008 Hamilton over Raikkonen for 3rd – pitlane penalty
2006 Raikkonen over Webber for 2nd – A LEGITMATE overtake as Webber ran wide"

One legitimate overtake for the podium in 12 years (13 including this years)! One!! So spare us the instant gratification nonsense. 13 years is not an instant.

As said it should be hard, extremely hard, but not practically impossible.


P.S. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Portier

Jules Bianchi's overtake for what ended up being 8th on track and Marussia's only ever points was pretty good.

It's not all about the top three.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Jules Bianchi's overtake for what ended up being 8th on track and Marussia's only ever points was pretty good.

It's not all about the top three.

I picked out the top three example because it highlights the ability of a good driver paying attention to keep the other car behind.

Leclerc's overtakes sunday were brilliant but a Lewis, Max or Seb wouldn't have given him the opportunity.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed sunday race. It's just that people were hoping for something that wasn't going to happen. Though it indeed has is charm I suppose.

I would've enjoyed each of the following scenario's more though:

- Hamilton after several wheel to wheel battle's with Verstappen takes the checkered flag!

Or:
- Verstappen wins the Monaco Grand Prix after heroic defence from Hamilton!

Or:
- Vettel takes the win after Hamilton and Verstappen clashed for the lead!

Stuff like that is just too unlikely at Monaco while many of the ingredients for it are actually there.

[gert]

Another nice one would have been if 1 of Vettel or Verstappen continued without stopping under the safety car.

Would he then have been able to drive away and open up a gap vs. Hamilton big enough to make his own stop later? Or would he have forced Hamilton to use up his tires and make a second stop?

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I don't understand why views about him are so dramatic, perhaps we're the ones in search of drama......

We? Speak for yourself....!!!

Agreed, wholeheartedly. If I could "default" "ignore" the soap opera stuff......in a heartbeat.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by jimclark

We? Speak for yourself....!!!

Agreed, wholeheartedly. If I could "default" "ignore" the soap opera stuff......in a heartbeat.

Too late for edit, I was advised some would be unenlightened of "soap opera, so....

"A soap opera is an ongoing drama serial on television or radio, featuring the lives of many characters and their emotional relationships. The term soap opera originated from radio dramas being sponsored by soap manufacturers. BBC Radio's The Archers, first broadcast in 1950, is the world's longest-running radio soap opera; the world's longest-running television soap opera is Coronation Street, first broadcast on ITV in 1960. A crucial element that defines the soap opera is the open-ended serial"

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Leclerc's overtakes sunday were brilliant but a Lewis, Max or Seb wouldn't have given him the opportunity.

If they were in one of the far-slower cars as we saw early in the race though? Overtaking in that Ferrari was pretty inevitable IMO, and it is better to look at the big picture and finish rather than sustain damage.

Was there a reason why Verstappen got 5 secs rather than the drive through that was discussed as the 'normal' penalty?

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by gert

Another nice one would have been if 1 of Vettel or Verstappen continued without stopping under the safety car.

Would he then have been able to drive away and open up a gap vs. Hamilton big enough to make his own stop later? Or would he have forced Hamilton to use up his tires and make a second stop?

I've wondered about that as well Gert. Though Bottas/Mercedes made that option harder when they slowed seconds on the in lap to give Bottas time to do a doable stop after Lewis without loosing out to Vettel en Verstappen.

But even considering the above it might have still been possible. However they probably didn't expect Mercedes to give Hamilton the mediums and to be so much slower as a result over the remaining 67 laps.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by johnh875

If they were in one of the far-slower cars as we saw early in the race though? Overtaking in that Ferrari was pretty inevitable IMO, and it is better to look at the big picture and finish rather than sustain damage.

Was there a reason why Verstappen got 5 secs rather than the drive through that was discussed as the 'normal' penalty?

Daniel missed 150hp last year, which made him pretty slow. So sure a faster car helps but at Monaco it's more a question of keeping the door closed just enough.

I think the 5s penalty might have been to keep the race interesting and they might have considered the fact that Bottas had slowed down so much so he would be screwed by the double stop.

Verstappen clearly didn't leave Bottas enough room and squeezed him into the wall (more the teams fault). So yeah 5s was pretty lenient.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by johnh875

Was there a reason why Verstappen got 5 secs rather than the drive through that was discussed as the 'normal' penalty?

An explanation from the stewards can be found here.

They note that the location of the Mercedes pit box is within the Red Bull guide board area, which contributes to the increased likelihood of an 'unsafe release'. This mitigates some of the team element to the incident.

The penalty is classified as an unsafe release, but they state that it is intended as a penalty to Verstappen, because he could have avoided contact - hence the reason he also received 2 points on his licence.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

An explanation from the stewards can be found here.

They note that the location of the Mercedes pit box is within the Red Bull guide board area, which contributes to the increased likelihood of an 'unsafe release'. This mitigates some of the team element to the incident.

The penalty is classified as an unsafe release, but they state that it is intended as a penalty to Verstappen, because he could have avoided contact - hence the reason he also received 2 points on his licence.

I did wonder about that. Max knew the car was there, but made no real action to avoid it.

But in terms of safety, what Bottas did afterwards wasn't great was it? The incident has happened, but Bottas stays alongside. Once Max has made contact, shouldn't Bottas have backed off, so the cars could be single fire and therefore safer? The unsafe release had happened, the penalty was coming, so staying double file didn't achive anything.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I did wonder about that. Max knew the car was there, but made no real action to avoid it.

But in terms of safety, what Bottas did afterwards wasn't great was it? The incident has happened, but Bottas stays alongside. Once Max has made contact, shouldn't Bottas have backed off, so the cars could be single fire and therefore safer? The unsafe release had happened, the penalty was coming, so staying double file didn't achive anything.

If you look at where Bottas was positioned immediately prior to the incident, I don't think he can be held to blame for the incident.

Bottas was already in the fast lane, and his front wing was beyond Verstappen's rear axle, so should be entitled to hold his ground.



He also had a Ferrari close behind him, so braking or lifting off may have caused a rear-end collision.

[Akrapovic]

I worded badly. I don't mean Bottas caused the incident, or that it was his responsibility to avoid it - that is 100% down to RBR and Max.

But afterwards, they both continued side by side. If F1 doesn't want a pair of cars traveling down the pit lane, surely both are responsible after the initial issue. Max is released unsafely and is alongside at the Renault garage. Contact is made at approxmiately the McLaren garage. But they remain side by side for the entire length of the pit lane. If this is "unsafe", then once the crime has been committed (by RBR), then the victim really should allow the car in front to move into single file. He will lose that spot on the exit of the pit lane anyway, and the car will be penalised.

I'm wording this badly, but basically - if it's dangerous to be side by side, then there's no reason for Bottas to stay alongside Verstappen after RBR already caused the problem.

[RWill2073]

I'm not sure why any of that pit stop is penalty-worthy, no matter the explanation. If Verstappen had waited even a second before being released, he not only loses out to bottas but also would either be released unsafely into Vettel or lose the spot to him as well. On a track where passing is near impossible, action like that in the pits needs to be allowed with a little more leeway. Otherwise, where your pit stall is located has as much to do with where you finish as does speed of pit stop. But good for Mercedes to know they can back up the field to stack their stops, and have that cause penalties to their rivals. Lord knows they need another break....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm wording this badly, but basically - if it's dangerous to be side by side, then there's no reason for Bottas to stay alongside Verstappen after RBR already caused the problem.

I don't disagree with you - in this case the contact is what has been penalised, which contributed to making the overall release 'unsafe'. Verstappen was not penalised for driving alongside Bottas.

Cars can continue side by side in a pit lane, and would not be penalised for it. Cars can use either lane, the restrictions are on which lane can be used for working on a car. If the inner lane is clear, a driver can progress along it without penalty.

The time when 'unsafe' comes into it is when a driver moves from the inner lane to the fast lane. In this instance, Verstappen caused a collision when he moved from the inner lane to the fast lane.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I don't disagree with you - in this case the contact is what has been penalised, which contributed to making the overall release 'unsafe'. Verstappen was not penalised for driving alongside Bottas.

Cars can continue side by side in a pit lane, and would not be penalised for it. Cars can use either lane, the restrictions are on which lane can be used for working on a car. If the inner lane is clear, a driver can progress along it without penalty.

The time when 'unsafe' comes into it is when a driver moves from the inner lane to the fast lane. In this instance, Verstappen caused a collision when he moved from the inner lane to the fast lane.

I think that, and the mitigation the stewards presented of tight pitlane and crew/equipment spacing, explanation covers a lot of the variance in the penalty from the usual. However, that might be a call for restricting the future pit lane equipment with Monaco specific rules. If they truly want to make it safer for all then as onerous and awkward as it can be there may have to be track specific set of pit lanes rules and regs, even if that slows the pit stops.

[S griffin]

I think these days 5 seconds is the standard penalty rather than a drive thru. Monaco has always had a tight pitlane, I'm not sure how much you can do to improve the situation

[Compromised]

If you're chasing safety, cars should NOT be racing in pit lane - so many team members/marshalls/media, it's utter chaos at times.

I'd argue it's more dangerous than refueling was.

Unfortunately (as mentioned above), modern F1 somewhat relies on "racing" in the pit lane, on track overtakes being quite difficult.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Compromised

If you're chasing safety, cars should NOT be racing in pit lane - so many team members/marshalls/media, it's utter chaos at times.

I'd argue it's more dangerous than refueling was.

Unfortunately (as mentioned above), modern F1 somewhat relies on "racing" in the pit lane, on track overtakes being quite difficult.

This, if either of those two cars got turned around the carnage would have been beyond belief. If you are going to allow the side by side it is only a matter of time.

The other thing I don't understand is how Bottas was allowed to back the remainder of the field up by so much. When Hamilton entered pit lane Bottas was nowhere to be seen.

[S griffin]

Exactly, there's no way you should allow side by side in the Monaco pitlane. Maybe if pitstops weren't so necessary it wouldn't be a problem in the first place

What Bottas did was no different from what others have done, he was cleverly allowing space while Hamilton did his stop

[midgetman]

Well guys. "Special Monaco equipment" rules. "Special Monaco pit driving" rules. No overtaking.

Looks like you've persuaded yourselves that Monaco shouldn't be on the calendar!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Aysedasi]

From a racing point of view, I don't think we really needed to be persuaded. But Monaco is (and I guess always will be) Monaco....