Arrows - Down the pan????Rumoured demise of Team (Merged) - Page 5

Red · 6 Jul 2002, 08:12 (Ref:328062)

Yep, they're both on track...

Red · 6 Jul 2002, 08:48 (Ref:328073)

... and looking good. 4th and 8th that does bode well I say.

Amaroo Park · 6 Jul 2002, 09:34 (Ref:328079)

At the moment here in Australia Walkinshaws Holden Special Vehicles (Of which he owns 75%)is sell around 4000 units per year and making huge profits. Why not use some of the money that he has from this or any of his other companys

paulzinho · 6 Jul 2002, 10:38 (Ref:328091)

Apparantly he's forked out the money himself. They survive.... for now.

Valve Bounce · 6 Jul 2002, 11:47 (Ref:328116)

It is crazy for Tom Walkinshaw to fork out his own money to keep the Arrows team afloat. In all honesty, the team should be adequately remunerated so that F1 fans around the world can be entertained. I am not defending Tom Walkinshaw - I am just dead set against the current system where the teams that race just are not sufficiently remunerated - that some inflated greedy organisation and persons (like Bernie) get to keep the lion's share.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

Jack racer · 6 Jul 2002, 12:40 (Ref:328139)

Bernie is killing his own class and he doesn't see it or doesn't care because he is filling his pockets anyway.

Sato san · 6 Jul 2002, 13:39 (Ref:328159)

somethings got be sorted. For all toms bad points, this is a trend across the whole of F1 ...its only the manufacteur teams that will eventually survive.

steve nielsen · 6 Jul 2002, 13:51 (Ref:328165)

it is sorted FOR THIS RACE, but whil they be there in France?

Sato san · 6 Jul 2002, 13:54 (Ref:328171)

Tom was talking this morning about the team being completely bought out to let it survive .

But by who ? , and would it be re-named ?

steve nielsen · 6 Jul 2002, 13:56 (Ref:328172)

There are rumours that Morgan Grenfell wants to save Arrows, but replace Tom with Graig Pollock.

NiceGuyEddie · 6 Jul 2002, 15:36 (Ref:328223)

Paying over 4 million dollars out of your own pocket TWICE!!

And then there are people who dare to claim that Walkinshaw doesnt give a rats ass for his team and employees...

The Accomplice · 6 Jul 2002, 16:52 (Ref:328265)

But by paying for the engines himself he still has a team to sell at the end of the weekend.

What I find incedible is that it seems that these guys just cannot run a business. Its not hard to work out that you cant spend what you have not got.

NiceGuyEddie · 6 Jul 2002, 17:17 (Ref:328268)

It wouldve been very easy for him to bail out and leave Morgan Grenfell with the pieces.

Sato san · 6 Jul 2002, 19:10 (Ref:328288)

The whole point of F1 nowdays is that it seemes that if you cant keep up with the big boys then your out...but if your honest about it , you cant really blame the teams spending what they havent got just to keep in F1 ...

As far as Tom doing the dirty on Jos , and some of his other dealings that people say about ...well i think thats a different matter , which i have no sympathy for him with ..but as far as the Minardi , Arrows , Jordan finances go , they are just being pushed out of F1 by the manufactuers who have endless millions to spend .

Mygale · 6 Jul 2002, 19:59 (Ref:328307)

If Bernie isnt careful , he is going to end up with a product that is not going to be very exciting to watch .

If teams like Jordan , Arrows , Minardi cant afford to be in F1 , then alot of F1's appeal will go with it .

Don K · 6 Jul 2002, 20:40 (Ref:328326)

Quote:

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
Paying over 4 million dollars out of your own pocket TWICE!!

As far as I know, this time he only payed enough to use the engines during one race.

Don K · 6 Jul 2002, 20:51 (Ref:328332)

Quote:

Originally posted by The Accomplice
What I find incedible is that it seems that these guys just cannot run a business. Its not hard to work out that you cant spend what you have not got.

I suppose most of his companies are doing all right.

His F1 team is in financial troubles, but money probably isn't the reason he wants to run Arrows.

I think most companies have some moments in which they have to invest (spend) more money than they have got (at that moment).
At that time, you'll probably have to
- either lower your goals (and let the competition get far ahead of you)
- or get a loan (e.g. issue bonds)
- or sell part of your company (e.g. issue shares)

So spending more money than you've got is not necisarily (sp?) a sign of bad business.

kmchow · 6 Jul 2002, 23:40 (Ref:328392)

Perhaps the team has Arthur Anderson as the auditing company?

Even though TWR can probably continue to pay for engines out of his own pocket, no one would like to do that in the long term. You at least want to bring even, if not create "a license to print (make money) money"

Valve Bounce · 7 Jul 2002, 03:12 (Ref:328455)

Even Jos has stayed his case against Walkinshaw, because had he put an injunction against the team racing, he would have gotten any money at all. The only good thing to come out of this is that if Arrows goes kaput (and none of us want that), then Minardi will get a bigger share of the TV money next year.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

The Accomplice · 7 Jul 2002, 15:08 (Ref:328703)

Quote:

Originally posted by Don K
So spending more money than you've got is not necisarily (sp?) a sign of bad business.

Of course its bad business because it will eventually send you to the wall we are now seeing with Arrows. This hasn't just happened, this is a result of bad management over the last 8 months.

paulzinho · 7 Jul 2002, 15:14 (Ref:328713)

Do you think Tom will ask for a refund on his engines? Or don't they come with a warranty....

Sato san · 7 Jul 2002, 15:37 (Ref:328730)

Quote:

Originally posted by The Accomplice

this is a result of bad management over the last 8 months.

This is the result of poorly thought out technical regulations that is going to see many teams that dont have manufactuer backing going to the wall.

steve nielsen · 7 Jul 2002, 15:56 (Ref:328743)

Well, TWR suffered a setback recently when Renault anounced that Renault Sport would build the new Clio V6 themselves because 90%(!!!) of the cars that where build by TWR did'nt meet their specifications, that's a lot of cars that will not be build in TWR's Swedish factory.

steve nielsen · 7 Jul 2002, 15:58 (Ref:328744)

and indeed: the payment was only made for this race, Tom now wants to sell Arrows before the next GP(if Morgan Grenfell is OK with that)

The Accomplice · 7 Jul 2002, 17:44 (Ref:328800)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sato san

This is the result of poorly thought out technical regulations that is going to see many teams that dont have manufactuer backing going to the wall.

The technical regs didn't tell him to spend money he didn't have. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

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