[BTCC] Round Five, Croft 25-26 Jun, Races 13,14&15

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

No doubt I'll be slapped down for the above comments, but I've got a broad back.

Not at all. Completely agreed

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

no better alternative as the "others" are even worse

Perhaps find a new hobby!

crmalcolm, I take any previous comments back!

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Perhaps find a new hobby!

crmalcolm, I take any previous comments back!

I don't understand

we are the Soviet Union or China now ? not allowed to voice the displeasure for current state of affairs ? we have to like everything as it is ?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I don't understand

we are the soviet union now ? not alowed to voice the displeasure for current state of affairs ? we have to like everything as it is ?

You not understanding does seem to say more about you than any of us.

My perception of this is, and I only started to notice that you were unhappy with the state of affairs with the BTCC around the period that Team Dynamics lost their dominance and the BMWs came to the fore. And then you constantly complained that the RWD cars had such an advantage that it was totally unfair.

And from that time onwards you do seem to only post fairly negative comments about the BTCC, and other comments that always seem to have a negative connotation, and never a positive one. Like this one: "looks like Cook's championship points lead just went out in smoke".

As you keep on telling anyone who reads these threads about the BTCC, you no longer like the series, so why torment yourself? That is what I don't understand!

[Mike Harte]

I've just finished watching Race 1, and notice that ITV appear to have fewer cameras around the track, or is this something that I had overlooked in previous years? For example, there doesn't seem to be a camera covering the chicane, and they appear to be using in car cameras much more that at other circuits.

Or am I just imagining it?

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

You not understanding does seem to say more about you than any of us.

My perception of this is, and I only started to notice that you were unhappy with the state of affairs with the BTCC around the period that Team Dynamics lost their dominance and the BMWs came to the fore. And then you constantly complained that the RWD cars had such an advantage that it was totally unfair.

And from that time onwards you do seem to only post fairly negative comments about the BTCC, and other comments that always seem to have a negative connotation, and never a positive one. Like this one: "looks like Cook's championship points lead just went out in smoke".

As you keep on telling anyone who reads these threads about the BTCC, you no longer like the series, so why torment yourself? That is what I don't understand!

you have wrong perception !!, I am not a Team Dynamics fanboy , I actually was upset at 2019 finale when Neal fired off the BMW of Turkington and I was rooting for Turkington to win the title and was glad for him winning it at the last lap so please correct your perceptions !!

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

not allowed to voice the displeasure for current state of affairs ? we have to like everything as it is ?

The series is open to criticism. But just saying 'it's rubbish' doesn't really add anything to the forum, and does make us wonder why you tune in

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I've just finished watching Race 1, and notice that ITV appear to have fewer cameras around the track, or is this something that I had overlooked in previous years? For example, there doesn't seem to be a camera covering the chicane, and they appear to be using in car cameras much more that at other circuits.

Or am I just imagining it?

You're imagining it. There were cameras at both chicanes.

In fact apart from the camera at Tower appearing to be slightly lower than usual this year, I don't think the camera positions at Croft have really changed since they lost the one at Sunny In because the MSA said it was in a dangerous position. And that was about 15 years ago.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What exactly did Dick Bennett’s say about the lack of overtaking? Anyone got a link?

"We looked at race one [today] there's virtually no overtaking, so I think something has to be looked at for the future. The racing's very good but there is little overtaking".

So the 'criticism' is of a single race. And it's not clear if he is referring to the regulations or the circuit (or some other factor).
He does say the racing is good though.

[S griffin]

I seriously didn’t see too much wrong with the racing. Maybe not as much overtaking as there has been, but the battles were still close. At least the BTCC doesn’t need DRS to make it exciting. The various qualities of each driver certainly keeps me interested

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by thetool

With such a knowledgable crowd you would expect nothing less.

They know good racing when they see it.

I'm sure things will be different at Knockhill. The nature of the circuit will mean mistakes will be made and passes will happen.

[AJD]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

What I found annoying was the number of people that had the mini tents, not because they were obstructing the view per se, but they take up very valuable space where other spectators could stand/sit.

We also thought that the attendance was much greater this year. We arrived about 20 minutes later (before 8.30) this year than last, and we were surprised at how many people were already there, as opposed to last year when we were one of the earliest arrivals. However, we plonked our chairs in exactly the same spot as last year, luckily it was one of the only front row spots still available on the narrow banking directly overlooking the tyre stack at the chicane, and unlike last year, people formed a 2nd row behind all of us.

Also found, as usual at Croft, people are all pleasant and no rowdy behaviour anywhere near us.

As someone else mentioned a couple of pages back, the popping and banging when they were changing gear of so many of the different classes of cars was rather unpleasant and somewhat tiring after a while. I would imagine it was something to do with the turbo operation.

The F4s produced a better sound this year, and more like a racing engine because they had been much quieter in the past.

Yeah I'm usually one for a spot on the banking through the first two corners however we were late getting there this year it was after 10 so had to make do standing behind a family at the front fence and just kept moving about though the day.

New engines this year in the F4 isn't it? Fiat turbo lumps or have I completely made that up?

[coppice]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and it's amusing to see you citing WSR who's team boss publicly critisized the lack of overtaking plus one of its drivers
I

oh please, go away with that crap, the girls who did this job in F1 lost an important $$$ revenue because some feminists whined about it and F1 gave in to appease them and nobody asked the said girls how they feel about it, some of them said they actually enjoyed doing it

Glad I cheered you up on the WSR point.

Believe me, it wasn't just 'feminists' who thought that grid girls had passed their sell by date years ago . In 2022 they are just plain embarrassing What purpose do they serve - a bit of titillation for folk who like that sort of thing? Can't they just look at internet porn instead ?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

yes but guess what , usually the major companies in any given sector make hidden deals with eachother which are bad for consumers

So by that logic - TOCA has colluded with other motorsport organisers to reach an agreement that they will all run their series' in a manner that is bad for consumers?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

That’s actually a superb idea to form the race 2 grid by the second fastest quali times, I’d support that 100%

Originally Posted by Evantra

Go on then crmalcolm, what would the R2 grid have looked like with this?

Ingram
Shedden
Turkington
Lloyd
Rowbottom
Hill
Gamble
Jelley
Butcher
Cammish
Gornall
Morgan
Chilton
Collard
Sutton
Moffat
Thompson
Crees
Jackson
Hand
Cook
Plato
Osborne
Edwards
Taylor-Smith
Hamilton
Powell
Patterson

[yellowbeard]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

Like I say though it's BTC's problem as other cars with the same engine aren't having the issue.

I'm still working through the thread but I haven't seen any mention of gear ratio's, maybe BTC just need to be able to select the right gear ratio for the track, they must be selecting faster acceleration over top speed ... can't have it both ways

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by yellowbeard

I'm still working through the thread but I haven't seen any mention of gear ratio's, maybe BTC just need to be able to select the right gear ratio for the track, they must be selecting faster acceleration over top speed ... can't have it both ways

I did hear some of the cars hitting the rev limiter through Barcroft perhaps a little earlier than expected...?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I did hear some of the cars hitting the rev limiter through Barcroft perhaps a little earlier than expected...?

Whilst at the chicane, I heard many cars short shifting in to 3rd gear so that they could make best use of the hybrid as soon as they exited the final phase onto the straight.

[Super Hans]

I made my first appearance at BTCC event since the 00s, mainly as a day out for the kids. I must say I enjoyed the day and the BTCC races in particular, but did notice it was much more processional than I remember. Very little 'rubbing'.

Anyway I haven't been on here for about 9 years but hello to any old stagers!

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

There is a 3 series shell at WSR, not sure if it’ll have progressed any since this article

http://www.speedhunters.com/2022/05/...surrey-racing/

Did I miss it did WSR reshell or fix

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Did I miss it did WSR reshell or fix

WSR borrowed Turkington's 2019 championship winning car from him and updated it to the 2022 regs plus installed the hybrid system. I think that it was announced that they only completed the car on Wednesday night.

Once his 2022 car is back, they will return the car to Turkington (less anything that they added/changed), which he then aims to include in a permanent display in N.I. which will be open to the public along with the other cars that he has bought.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

There is a 3 series shell at WSR, not sure if it’ll have progressed any since this article

http://www.speedhunters.com/2022/05/...surrey-racing/

If you mean the shell on the vehicle lift, that's straight off the BMW production line. There's best part of a month's worth of work to remove all the unwanted brackets, acid dip it back to bare metal, and fabricate the cage. Not something you can do between race weekends

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by redshoes

If you mean the shell on the vehicle lift, that's straight off the BMW production line. There's best part of a month's worth of work to remove all the unwanted brackets, acid dip it back to bare metal, and fabricate the cage. Not something you can do between race weekends

Quite. My post was in reference to a few posters saying that a team like WSR should have a spare car. It’s obviously there with the intention for it to be converted to race spec at some point. I was unsure when the pictures used in the article were taken.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

I was unsure when the pictures used in the article were taken.

Text refers to it being the day after the first test. Assume that mean's the first official test at Donington at the end of March.

[3marinadrive]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

current standings

maybe Hill will have to support Turkington's bid soon ?

Tingram 195
Cook 192
Turkington 183
Sutton 171

Hill 154

Butcher 137

Why? There's Half a Season to go and there are no team orders unless it's mathematically impossible for him to win it....one or two solid weekends for Hill and tough ones for those ahead and he's right back in it...he's had his qualifying ruined by Chilton at Oulton Park and a Red Flag whilst 'Purple' at Croft, so the pace is there...

Also the mid-season test is coming up - he didn't get much running pre-season so if they get the data they need, he could be a very strong contender. Speaking with those close to him, there's a lot more to come from him this year....