[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[TF110]

A nice 4 in 1 picture



And heres a video http://youtu.be/hGJQPwumi_Q

[Acid09]

Look's like Conway is having is hands full with that one, never seen the TS040 look so twitchy before.

[chernaudi]

Low downforce set up on a high downforce track, or dirty track? Magny Cours isn't really used for much racing nowadays, isn't it?

I've also seen the Toyota get sideways out of the last corner at Paul Ricard during the WEC test there, that suggest that they're releasing all that power in one big gulp and depending on circumstances, the mechanical grip doesn't always cope.

To be fair, the Porsche has been fairly twitchy at times, too, and that in part was at least down to low downforce aero and possibly how they release the power.

Audi have had their moments though out the entire R18 program since 2011 with loose race cars where the front stuck better than the rear.

It could mean anything, including how all these cars' front/rear weight bias has been since the near-equal sized wheels and tires came into play. To get that to work, you have to shift a lot of weight forward, which means less weight on the rear tires.

[carbon_titanium]

usually toyota tests the low drag package at paul ricard and aragon, if they are at magny cours I guess that maybe they are testing some kind of 2015 michelin compound

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Low downforce set up on a high downforce track, or dirty track? Magny Cours isn't really used for much racing nowadays, isn't it?

I've also seen the Toyota get sideways out of the last corner at Paul Ricard during the WEC test there, that suggest that they're releasing all that power in one big gulp and depending on circumstances, the mechanical grip doesn't always cope.

To be fair, the Porsche has been fairly twitchy at times, too, and that in part was at least down to low downforce aero and possibly how they release the power.

Audi have had their moments though out the entire R18 program since 2011 with loose race cars where the front stuck better than the rear.

It could mean anything, including how all these cars' front/rear weight bias has been since the near-equal sized wheels and tires came into play. To get that to work, you have to shift a lot of weight forward, which means less weight on the rear tires.

Standing on the outside of Luffield for qualifying at the WEC really was something. On the cool and greasy track the Porsches were squirming at the slightest touch of the throttle. It was brilliant to watch, but I'm sure the drivers found it fustrating not being able to use all the power. The Toyotas, oddly enough, seemed to have far more grip - but as you say, it could be the low downforce trim. Porsche were running LD at Silverstone, Toyota weren't.

I'm surprised we haven't seen more of this in racing conditions this season, both here and in Formula One. These drivers never cease to amaze me in how quickly they can adapt to a completely different style of driving.

[chernaudi]

Could just be endemic to the wide tire/equal tire and wheel size on all four corners philosophy.

You need a lot of weight on the front to get those wider fronts to work. Before then, the cars tended to understeer more, but now they tend to be more prone to oversteer.

Kinda like going from the weight distribution of an Audi R8 or Ferrari 458 to like a BWM Z4 or M-B SLS, and it's been suspected that quite a few of these newer cars--Audi especially--are possibly slightly nose heavy to get the wider front tires to work.

[TF110]

Its probably that 1000ps kicking in! Plus Conway hasnt drove the car since the beginning of the year, if that is him driving. I wonder whether updates are on the car or not.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Don't know if the link to this video was posted before, but it is simply SUPERB. Great stuff.

[TF110]

Thats the result of the filming they were talking of during the LM event. Turned out great, very high quality.

[TF110]

Mike Conway drops formula e because of conflicts with his drive for Toyota.

I hope this is a step up for him in the team. Im not sure of the scheduling conflicts, but Indycar can't be something to attribute to this decision since the season is over.

[Simmi]

Get this man in a car full-time next year. Worst-case scenario in the third car at Le Mans. Spa?

[TF110]

Autohebdo has an interview with Vasselon in its latest edition for purchase- http://www.autohebdo.fr/magazine-413...ux_programmes_ Hes covering wrc and lmp1, and if theyll tackle two programs. I dont have means to buy the article so Im not sure on the details, but others are saying hes doubtful on the 3 car approach at Le Mans next year.

[gustavobamba]

If its true that Mr. Vasselon said he doubt 3 cars in 2015 Le Mans, then Toyota will lose again but this time behind Audi and Porsche, and with some luck even behind Nissan

Unless they find some extra power/aero/hybrid stuff and manage to escape all the possible accidents…

[gustavobamba]

Don´t get me wrong, i´m a 919 fan.. but Toyota already deserves a WIN. But they have to prove they want it bad… the 3rd car could mean they are really serious about it…

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Autohebdo has an interview with Vasselon in its latest edition for purchase- http://www.autohebdo.fr/magazine-413...ux_programmes_ Hes covering wrc and lmp1, and if theyll tackle two programs. I dont have means to buy the article so Im not sure on the details, but others are saying hes doubtful on the 3 car approach at Le Mans next year.

I can indeed confirm that Vasselon appears to suggest that TMG might not get the budget to run three cars next year. Here is the original quote (in French) from the AutoHebdo article:

Pensez-vous pouvoir disposer de trois voitures l'année prochaine ?
J'aimerais bien, mais je ne pense pas qu'on aura le budget. Ça a été discuté. Même si on est encore dans l'attente.

Which may be translated as follows:

Do you believe you will be in position to run there cars next year ?
I would like to, but I don't believe we will get the budget. It has been discussed. We are still waiting.

[TF110]

Thanks for that. Its budget is still yet to be signed off so theres a chance 3 cars can happen.

I dont think theyll be behind next year. Especially if they choose 8mj class. Im sure theyll find more ways to cut weight on the car to run a big enough capacitor to 'uprate' its performance. Nissan will be on the backfoot unless they have something magical no one else thought of. But thats unlikely.

[TF110]

Sorry for double posting, but I came across this- http://serakota.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-09-17. Its in japanese, but speaks of the higashi-fuji technical center where the THS-R is made. Perhaps our friend, Japanese Samurai could help translate.

[Japanese Samurai]

Yes.
Motor Fan Illustrated magazine reports Toyota Higashi-Fuji Technical Center.
http://www.as-books.jp/books/info.php?no=MFI20140916
(Click the book cover and you can check out the preview.)

*It features assembly work and engine bench of TS040 engine.
*TS030's engine trouble in 2012 LM24 was caused by the mistake in the assembly work of the engine.

[Deleted]

Surely others are looking at 8MJ as well now.

If they only get the budget for two normal season cars again and everybody else gets three = nine cars of opposition, I wouldn't go into LM too optimistic, not at all...

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

I can indeed confirm that Vasselon appears to suggest that TMG might not get the budget to run three cars next year. Here is the original quote (in French) from the AutoHebdo article:

Which may be translated as follows:

That is a puzzling decision from corporate if it turns out this way.

One would think they would have learned their lesson this year, a third car would in all likelihood have won them the race.

You just lose one car way too quickly in one freak accident and then there's no room for error anymore.

[Gingers4Justice]

It's worth noting that a two-car team hasn't won at Le Mans since 2006.

Even the privateer R8 victories in the 2000s were as a result of Audi Sport giving significant support.

Then you'd have to go back to Bentley in 2003, a year in which they were effectively gifted the victory and only had to beat themselves.

So that leaves 1999 as the last time a two-car effort won at Le Mans in a competitive race. 16 years ago.

You don't have to be a gifted motorsport historian to understand that in years of competitive, manufacturer involvement in the top class very much favours entrants with three cars or more.

[Deleted]

Very true.

And for all we know Audi could end up marching to the track with four cars again like couple of years ago (not that we think it's gonna happen in 15 but in the arms race everything is possible)

[Acid09]

Plus, how much can it actually cost to run a third car for one (maybe two if they do Spa as preparation) event?

The car is already developed, that money has already been spent. So there's just the costs of building the car and the added personal.

They're the largest car maker in the world ffs..and yet they insist on trying to win the world's hardest motor race on a shoestring budget to make it extra hard for them.

[Deleted]

The fact that they were only able to run 1 car in quite few of the 12-13 races while team like Rebellion had the cabability to run cars both in the WEC and ALMS simultaneously goes to tell you how poor their budget really was. And if it's two cars for LM next year again when everyone else ups their game, still is...

I don't understand how Toyota thinks this through... still nightmares about the 400 million wasted dollars per year in F1 I guess

[TF110]

Its not a finalized budget so theres still no final decision. Just a guess from Vasselon. He isn't in charge of TMG, he's the technical director. The man in charge would be TMG President Yoshiaki Kinosh ta. Rob Leupen is TMG's director of business operations. Its probably up to those two to talk up and convince Toyota to up the budget.

F1 wasnt 400 million per year being spent. That was the estimated amout per year for the total program. But you see TMG is what it is because the money spent. That wasn't just for f1 as we now know. We will see. Im hopeful and I think it depends on the results of this season. If they win the drivers title and/or manufacturers title, that should put a smile on their faces and convince them to go for 3 cars.