Meaningfull Rallycross Discussion - Page 4

leonidas · 2 Apr 2007, 11:14 (Ref:1881868)

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.Lowe

I think it would be very doubtful for a winter seies as like what has been said before at the end of the BRC, ROC and IRXC people are re prepping or having new cars built for the next season.

Also if a witer series was to be run then I think the organisers would have to rely again on rally car classes to try and fill up entries

One option would be to run it without Div. 1. That way the modified boys would get to 'headline' a championship of their own and encourage people to keep their cars going over winter - particularly those that require less prep.

I don't think having a rally car class is a bad thing. If promoted propertly it could encourage more people into the sport for the first time. Maybe call it 'street legal' and get people to drive their cars to the track.

barmybob · 2 Apr 2007, 12:44 (Ref:1881934)

I had a strange mobile phone message the other day from Anita. Not spoken to her for a few years but her message awoke some interest in me to see how Rallycross was getting on. A quick look through the posts on here and I see that nothing much has changed in the few years I have been away.

Back in the 80’s and 90’s I was a big Rallycross fan and travelled Europe supporting the sport and the UK drivers. After years following the sport Anita managed to tempt me into doing some marshalling but it has to be said that my love of the sport was already waning at that point.

For me when the UK Rallycross organising committee implemented rules that pushed the UK even further away from the ERC rules they wrecked the sport. Effectively the UK drivers were forced out of European events as those who built cars to comply with, the then, ERC rules didn’t stand a chance on the UK scene up against the, still permitted, RS200 & 6R4s. The lack of British talent competing regularly in Europe also meant that the UK had little influence on the ERC scene and so moved even further apart.

What made the sport so appealing in the old days was watching the top UK drivers competing in the ERC rounds against the BEST Rallycross drivers there were. One of the main benefits of foreign competition was that it gave the UK spectator a fantastic domestic scene.

Limit the competition and you limit both the amount of people prepared to compete and ultimately the amount of spectators willing to watch.

Anyway thanks for the strange call Anita; I might just surprise you and turn up at an event this year.

Bob

Steve Gibson · 2 Apr 2007, 15:38 (Ref:1882047)

The following opinion will probably end up with me being accused of being "pro something" and "anti something" but her we go I take a chance that what I am saying will be taken in the manner that it is meant.
With people kicking off about the Khumo deal and now even some people seem to be mentioning legal action and the like due to to the way the deal was seen to be done. There seems to be fall outs within the sport but I suppose having more than one championship may be a cloud with a silver lining.
Instead of those that don't want to or won't take part in the BRXC have got somewhere else to race in the ROC and therefore will not necessarily be lost to the sport as happened several years ago when quite a few quit and went to do other things.
Finally can someone do me a favour and copy the Lyden Entry list and send it to me in Word or something as my Adobe programme is playing silly B...ers and won't work.

**Peter Mallett** · 2 Apr 2007, 16:05 (Ref:1882075)

Steve,

If Rallycross wsn't so far up its own backside, at least in the UK, things would be different. You are right to be frustrated but to be fair, organisations are there to make a profit! The fact that some of that comes from entry fees is "terrible". That said I would like to see an end to the "us and them" thing. Rallycross is good fun for a spectator, (sideways driving always is) but the bickering turns them away.

Cryos · 2 Apr 2007, 17:22 (Ref:1882118)

Its funny if you look at rallycross in the uk and ireland. To be honest over here its run for the love of the sport, and many drivers do appriciate the work that Graham Lenehan, Declan Grogan, Tom Kirwan, Robert M...etc have done over the lifetime of the sport in ireland.

Its feels Very Tight nit, everyone knows everyone and its a really good athmosphere...

But in the uk it just dosnt feel right, theres something false about the whole thing... Its like its run like a business.

RampItUp · 2 Apr 2007, 19:23 (Ref:1882188)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rxie

Its funny if you look at rallycross in the uk and ireland. To be honest over here its run for the love of the sport, and many drivers do appriciate the work that Graham Lenehan, Declan Grogan, Tom Kirwan, Robert M...etc have done over the lifetime of the sport in ireland.

Its feels Very Tight nit, everyone knows everyone and its a really good athmosphere...

But in the uk it just dosnt feel right, theres something false about the whole thing... Its like its run like a business.

That's the daftest thing I ever heard and sums up everything that's wrong with UK Rallycross.

Just how else is it supposed to be run exactly? As a charity perhaps? If some of the organisers had a decent business model and ran it professionally then the sport may even move forward and not lurch from one crisis to the next, being continuously bailed out by certain individuals (who won't be around forever).

mel tyres · 2 Apr 2007, 21:09 (Ref:1882280)

Thats why we welcome the KUMHO TYRES Sponsorship to stop the financial strains etc

Cryos · 2 Apr 2007, 21:33 (Ref:1882303)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RampItUp

That's the daftest thing I ever heard and sums up everything that's wrong with UK Rallycross.

Just how else is it supposed to be run exactly? As a charity perhaps? If some of the organisers had a decent business model and ran it professionally then the sport may even move forward and not lurch from one crisis to the next, being continuously bailed out by certain individuals (who won't be around forever).

If you had any concept of how clubman or sports like some rallycross championships work its run out of everyones pockets.

**Peter Mallett** · 3 Apr 2007, 02:22 (Ref:1882399)

Three posts and each has merit.

Rampitup, most of your post is fine by me even if it nay be less than tactful in the execution. Yes, motorsport must be run professionally. That of course is a standard not necessarily a business requirement andit necessitates certain ways to treat either employees (which is how one organiser sees the drivers) or its customers.

Yhen Mel's point confirms your view that finance is necessary. However you have previously rubbished the tyre deal so I get confused with your position.

rxie otoh, is a clubman and sees racing as being financed by the racer (customer) and to an extent he is right.

So I think there is agreement that motorsport must be run in a busnesslike and professional way. That means that tyre deals, promises of tv coverage etc. must be presented to the customer in due time so that appropriate action when required can be taken.

And when those decisions are taken they must deliver the promised result.

Bad tv coverage is worse than no coverage at all.

Poor communication of a major decision is a recipe for discontent.

Cryos · 3 Apr 2007, 16:27 (Ref:1882797)

I would agree there;

What i mean is, that a business runs to suit itselft and take choises to make itself more profitable at its own gain; and nobody elses...

However most motorsports (of an amature to visable level) run for the love of the sport; And to a degree its suppose to be done for the love of the sport, this is why i compair the IRXC and BRXC you have a simular set of drivers but it seems like 2 sets of Athmospheres...

leonidas · 3 Apr 2007, 17:47 (Ref:1882846)

What I have never seen from any UK rallycross organiser is a serious development plan for the sport. Yes, I mean an actual development plan that you could go to your bank manager with - not a wish list. Some of the frustration comes from the fact that many of us have a business background and do expect the sport we care about to be organised in a considered, transparent and professional way.

For better or worse the tyre deal has given the BRDA 'stability' - let's now see this turned into strategic thinking for the future. Let's start with reunification talks...

winnie · 4 Apr 2007, 07:40 (Ref:1883145)

Don't see how the tyre deal has given 'stability'. I think it has done the opposite and caused a split. Competitors will be hesitant to build new cars as they feel the BRDA could change the regs at the drop of a hat. I think a few fringe drivers will have been lost for good, not just due to the tyre situation, but the constant rise in costs to compete in rallycross. It used to be a lot cheaper than rallying, but i think the costs for a clubman are know similar, certainly rallying offers more miles / pound.

**Peter Mallett** · 4 Apr 2007, 07:55 (Ref:1883158)

Surely this finance has provided short term stability.

"Fringe" drivers are not that important really. I presume you mean those who can't make their minds up between a non-championship series and running in an MSA recognised championship? If they needed something like this to make up their minds for them then perhaps they don't really want to compete in the first place?

Certainly some people are disgruntled and I'm sure they'll make themselves known to the BRDA if they haven't already done so. But looking at the entries for Lydden it seems many are committing to the Championship. (Remember that word).

Leonidas' point about a development plan is right though. Now that the championship has some stability the BRDA really does need to put a plan together in order to keep it beyond the contract period. The best way for them to keep it would be to talk to the ROC to see if any reconciliation is on the table.

Steve Gibson · 13 Apr 2007, 16:28 (Ref:1890556)

BRXC Lydden Easter Monday
From what has been written it would seem a good day had by (nearly) all, good weather, good racing and a good size crowd who seem to have been well entertained. One down side is from what has been written in various places and having had a conversations with a couple of people that were there it seems there may have been some dodgy driving, Ala touring cars, if this is correct did those involved get shown the error of their ways Andrew Jordans car certainly looked like it had been savaged!
Roll on Blyton and lets hope for another good event.

**BertMk2** · 13 Apr 2007, 19:45 (Ref:1890669)

Jordans car lost drive on Chessons - McCluskey collected it and went over the front wing and Hill hit it from behind as he was unsighted by the dust. A lot of the supercars were showing damage but there didn't appear to be any more "bumper car" driving than normal.

winnie · 13 Apr 2007, 19:49 (Ref:1890674)

Peter, by fringe drivers, i mean people like Mike Manning, Mark Watson, Rob Gibson etc, all drivers that have decent cars but have been put off by the attitude of rallycross.

Most super car drivers tend to do all of the rounds, but i bet only 2 or 3modified drivers will - why. For a championship to be really good it needs all of the drivers to do all of the rounds. Perhaps the organisers should introduce an incentive for this to happen, perhaps £500 back if they do all of the rounds or similar. As it stands Bellerby will win the championship, the second and third place will be a drivers that has done all the rounds, not the second or third fastest fastest car / driver combination, hence why the TT did well in last years championship.

Lydden was great, Knockhill and Pembrey will be poorly supported because drivers can't afford to do all of the rounds, and they would rather do Croft and Lydden (and Brands if poss) which is a shame for the championship.

**Peter Mallett** · 14 Apr 2007, 07:19 (Ref:1890856)

Understood Winnie. But what you describe is pretty normal for what is essentially amateur motorport. I can't enter all the races I'd like to enter and yes, that means that someone with the time and cash will achieve. But your comment would suggest that the organisers should pay the drivers for turning up. Again this only happens in professional sport.

So we have to accept that our favourite drivers won't always achieve the goals we'd like them to achieve.

leonidas · 16 Apr 2007, 12:44 (Ref:1892920)

Quote:

Originally Posted by winnie

Lydden was great, Knockhill and Pembrey will be poorly supported because drivers can't afford to do all of the rounds, and they would rather do Croft and Lydden (and Brands if poss) which is a shame for the championship.

Pembrey had a decent turnout last year - its only really Knockhill that struggles. The financial case for going to Knockhill is weak but if you're a national series you've got to go to Scotland. Its a shame we have lost Blyton from the BRC - it was a good central track for both northern and southern drivers to get to.

bestrep · 19 Apr 2007, 21:19 (Ref:1895821)

Quote:

Originally Posted by leonidas

Pembrey had a decent turnout last year - its only really Knockhill that struggles. The financial case for going to Knockhill is weak but if you're a national series you've got to go to Scotland. Its a shame we have lost Blyton from the BRC - it was a good central track for both northern and southern drivers to get to.

On Sunday 60 clubmen will compete at BLYTON for an entry fee of only 150.00 including two FREE MEALS!!!.There will also be three more events this year at BLYTON (A good central location at more moderate entry fees!!!)A cracking circuit!! I look forward to seeing you there for great motorsport!!!.

Steve Gibson · 24 Apr 2007, 18:41 (Ref:1899527)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestrep

On Sunday 60 clubmen will compete at BLYTON for an entry fee of only 150.00 including two FREE MEALS!!!.There will also be three more events this year at BLYTON (A good central location at more moderate entry fees!!!)A cracking circuit!! I look forward to seeing you there for great motorsport!!!.

So how was it, did they all behave and have a good days sport.

bigted · 24 Apr 2007, 19:00 (Ref:1899540)

dusty

strongbow dek · 24 Apr 2007, 19:12 (Ref:1899548)

really good days racing untill politics took over and ms wakeling being handed a win after rolling and causing a red flag. many people not impressed