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Old 6 Mar 2013, 13:46 (Ref:3215064)   #51
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My question would be: How useful is the LMP2 engine thing as a stepping stone for LMP1?

If they would enter their own team in LMP2 I would get it, an exercise to train the team in endurance racing, similar to what Porsche is doing in GTE this year.

But what can they actually learn from just supplying a LMP2 engine that will help them to build a LMP1?
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 13:52 (Ref:3215065)   #52
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Depends if Signatech are looking to get the works gig with Alpine. If not, then it's just a toe in the water PR-wise.

I'm confused a bit, are we talking P2 in 2013 or 2014?

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Old 6 Mar 2013, 13:56 (Ref:3215067)   #53
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My question would be: How useful is the LMP2 engine thing as a stepping stone for LMP1?
Have to admit I was wondering this too. Like you say it makes more sense if Signatech are becoming integrated into the works mix.

Maybe it's just an excuse for them to being PR'ing the event in the lead-up to their P1 entry? Not sure to be honest.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 14:36 (Ref:3215091)   #54
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Local Le Maine Libre newspaper: http://www.lemainelibre.fr/actualite...-03-2013-53983

Google translated: seems to only speculate about P1.
In advance of the official announcement Le Maine Libre aren't in any better position than any of us to anything other than speculate as to what the main thrust of the announcement is likely to be - perhaps even less so as they won't want to burn their access etc by ignoring embargoes in advance of the press conference.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 14:57 (Ref:3215100)   #55
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The original RCE story doesn't make any references to years other than the new regs coming in 2014. LMP2 for 2013 and right away LMP1 in 2014 sounds like a bit too speedy development to me. For once I'm being pessimistic...
They already are committed to having the engine etc ready for 2014 for the F1 car. We do not know how far down the line they are with chassis development or whether they will commission or partner an existing chassis manufacturer / designer.

If part of the motivation is for a test bed for the F1 engine then 2014 is probably a must.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 15:12 (Ref:3215108)   #56
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They already are committed to having the engine etc ready for 2014 for the F1 car. We do not know how far down the line they are with chassis development or whether they will commission or partner an existing chassis manufacturer / designer.
Peugeot's, Toyota's or Porsche's "timelines" should give pretty good idea how far down the line they should be by now if it has been greenlighted internally.

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If part of the motivation is for a test bed for the F1 engine then 2014 is probably a must.
To me this has always sounded weird. Yes, the engine might be the same, but nothing else is. Quite expensive testing and also risky, since they'd have to also actually race.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 15:25 (Ref:3215112)   #57
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Just a thought - am I the only one who thinks it would be strange if Renault did spend full-on-LMP1 money on Alpine, i.e. a one car (and a niche model at that) sub-brand?

Unless they have much bigger plans for Alpine (making it their ///M or something), I really don't see where they'd get anything in the way of the necessary ROI for that. I supposse they could badge it as a "Renault Alpine" as they did in the 1970s, but Alpine only would make zero sense for me for P1.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 15:35 (Ref:3215114)   #58
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But what can they actually learn from just supplying a LMP2 engine that will help them to build a LMP1?
If there are specific parts, ideas or materials that they want tested....
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 16:05 (Ref:3215129)   #59
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No mention about LMP1 in the article on autosport.com.
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A link-up between the Renault brand, in which Caterham has had a 50 per cent stake since late last year, and the French Signatech LMP2 team will be announced at Le Mans on Friday.

The deal is likely to include Alpine branding replacing the badges of Renault sister marque Nissan on the V8 engine in team's ORECA 03 chassis.

Caterham boss Tony Fernandes raised the prospect of Alpine returning to Le Mans when his deal to take a share in the Dieppe-based company was announced last November.

He suggested that the new sportscar to be developed by Alpine could have a future racing against the likes of Ferrari, Porsche and Chevrolet in the GTE class, but he also hinted that there could be other racing plans for the brand.
source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105871
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 16:33 (Ref:3215141)   #60
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Has there been any mention of what the p2 engine might look like? V8, v6 turbo? Also, don't p2 engines have to be production based? I'm not familiar with Renault's cars but what engine would they use?
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 16:43 (Ref:3215147)   #61
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Has there been any mention of what the p2 engine might look like? V8, v6 turbo? Also, don't p2 engines have to be production based? I'm not familiar with Renault's cars but what engine would they use?
Sounds like, to start with, it'll probably be a rebadged VK45DE Nissan LMP2 engine.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 16:44 (Ref:3215149)   #62
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I suppose the worst case scenario here is that we are about to embark on one of those Golden Age periods, that we'll look back as a fantastic period of Sportscars... such as the circa 98'-99' period. It might fall apart after a few years, but it will be fantastic while it lasts, so enjoy it...make plans to see these races in person while they are in the glory period. Personally, I'm thinking Le Mans 2015 is looking like a must.
I was thinking this as well, whilst I don't wish to appear a cynic, but high manufacturer concentration at one point in time often ends in a breakup. 98' and 99' as you mentioned are key examples, since manufacturers like Nissan were spending so much money to not be very competitive. 3 manufacturers is probably enough at any point in time, having said that I am properly impressed with the manufacturer interest in sportscar racing at the moment.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 16:45 (Ref:3215152)   #63
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Sounds like, to start with, it'll probably be a rebadged VK45DE Nissan LMP2 engine.
That's what the Autosport article says... sigh. The announcement better have a promise of P1 plan, or otherwise it's going to be another anti-climax.

Anyone else thinking that having a whole class under one alliance can't be a good thing in terms of politicking and so on?
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 16:50 (Ref:3215155)   #64
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Has there been any mention of what the p2 engine might look like? V8, v6 turbo? Also, don't p2 engines have to be production based? I'm not familiar with Renault's cars but what engine would they use?
I would have thought it would be something like a v6 turbo, since Renault were the main motivation behind the new turbo f1 engines. They are planning for their production line to consist of mainly turbo engines by 2015. That's just my take on things anyway.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 16:51 (Ref:3215157)   #65
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I was thinking this as well, whilst I don't wish to appear a cynic, but high manufacturer concentration at one point in time often ends in a breakup. 98' and 99' as you mentioned are key examples, since manufacturers like Nissan were spending so much money to not be very competitive. 3 manufacturers is probably enough at any point in time, having said that I am properly impressed with the manufacturer interest in sportscar racing at the moment.
Major difference to 98-99: no actual championship around the big race.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 17:22 (Ref:3215168)   #66
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Has there been any mention of what the p2 engine might look like? V8, v6 turbo? Also, don't p2 engines have to be production based? I'm not familiar with Renault's cars but what engine would they use?
Renault and Nissan share almost all of their engines. Most gas engines are Nissan designs and diesels are Renault.

So, it will probably be a Chevrolet.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 17:39 (Ref:3215171)   #67
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Peugeot's, Toyota's or Porsche's "timelines" should give pretty good idea how far down the line they should be by now if it has been greenlighted internally.
That depends on how they are procuring the chassis - they could outsource it to someone like Wirth or Dome, or it could be a joint development with Nissan.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but there are more than one ways to skin a cat.


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To me this has always sounded weird. Yes, the engine might be the same, but nothing else is. Quite expensive testing and also risky, since they'd have to also actually race.
Not really - I said part motivation - when you can run two world championship programmes with an overlap of costs surely it improves the return
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 17:43 (Ref:3215175)   #68
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Major difference to 98-99: no actual championship around the big race.
Plus, the whole scene was bound to fall apart with Toyota and BMW both heading off to Formula One.... no such thing is on the horizon for any of the manufacturers currently involved in LMP1.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 17:54 (Ref:3215177)   #69
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That depends on how they are procuring the chassis - they could outsource it to someone like Wirth or Dome, or it could be a joint development with Nissan.
If only there was a French chassis manufacturer who would love to work with a manufacturer... Mr. Nicolet are you listening?
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 19:30 (Ref:3215230)   #70
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Frankly, this will be rubbish. It won't be the fuel I want, or the configuration of engine and chassis, have the wrong team running it, the visibility will be rubbish, they'll enter in the wrong class, it'll destroy Le Mans and sportscar racing more generally, it is already the wrong manufacturer, they'll call it a crap name, won't enter enough cars, won't sell enough to privateers, not have the budget I think they should, enter too late to be competitive, but also too early for reg changes, have the wrong drivers and it'll be ugly.

And it will be the wrong colour.

It think that has it covered. Please feel free to to copy and paste later in the thread.

They are on a hiding to nothing, why bother!

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Old 6 Mar 2013, 19:52 (Ref:3215239)   #71
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^Now what will we talk about for the next 3 days?
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 20:03 (Ref:3215243)   #72
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Frankly, this will be rubbish. It won't be the fuel I want, or the configuration of engine and chassis, have the wrong team running it, the visibility will be rubbish, they'll enter in the wrong class, it'll destroy Le Mans and sportscar racing more generally, it is already the wrong manufacturer, they'll call it a crap name, won't enter enough cars, won't sell enough to privateers, not have the budget I think they should, enter too late to be competitive, but also too early for reg changes, have the wrong drivers and it'll be ugly.
In above scenario at least they'd do something instead of just rebranding an existing engine! (If that is the only thing they're going to do.)
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 20:07 (Ref:3215246)   #73
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Frankly, this will be rubbish. It won't be the fuel I want, or the configuration of engine and chassis, have the wrong team running it, the visibility will be rubbish, they'll enter in the wrong class, it'll destroy Le Mans and sportscar racing more generally, it is already the wrong manufacturer, they'll call it a crap name, won't enter enough cars, won't sell enough to privateers, not have the budget I think they should, enter too late to be competitive, but also too early for reg changes, have the wrong drivers and it'll be ugly.

And it will be the wrong colour.

It think that has it covered. Please feel free to to copy and paste later in the thread.

They are on a hiding to nothing, why bother!

Let´s hope it´ll smell like ´orange blossom´ and all is good!
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 20:44 (Ref:3215260)   #74
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Frankly, this will be rubbish. It won't be the fuel I want, or the configuration of engine and chassis, have the wrong team running it, the visibility will be rubbish, they'll enter in the wrong class, it'll destroy Le Mans and sportscar racing more generally, it is already the wrong manufacturer, they'll call it a crap name, won't enter enough cars, won't sell enough to privateers, not have the budget I think they should, enter too late to be competitive, but also too early for reg changes, have the wrong drivers and it'll be ugly.

And it will be the wrong colour.

It think that has it covered. Please feel free to to copy and paste later in the thread.

They are on a hiding to nothing, why bother!

You forgot that it will be plasticky and will rattle.
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Old 6 Mar 2013, 22:33 (Ref:3215298)   #75
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Interesting to hear Hindy and the MWM crew downplaying the whole Renault rumour. P2 engine only they reckon. If it is just a re-badge then it's not going to set the world alight.
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