Dakar and Rally-Raid discussion...

[justracing]

Early doors but after stage 3 the top 10 cars are separated by just 30 mins and 5 different makes of vehicle which is good to see, could the dark horses be the combination of Sam Sunderland and Toby Price former top 2 wheelers in the Hilux? They sure know how to win at this level and withe several top runners already eliminated we could be in for a surprise.

[Gerard C]

Bent chassis for Loeb, its canned for him and Lurquin.

[Gerard C]

You might be right here, JR. Since the first videos I don't think that the Dacia buggy is perfect. Too compact, too few room for the cooling systems, just have a look to the intercoolers bolt to the engine heads and you'll understand what I mean.
Add to this that many went back to NA engines, the Nissan block is twin turboed which, combined with small rads, is a real flaw for a car racing in a desert. Even if Nasser wins, I think they'll have to deeply correct the design at least the overall length. And the cockpit doesn't offer enough visibility to the codriver who is literally nose on the screens. Its not sim racing.

[justracing]

Dacia's promo video of the car build suggested to me that they were attempting to cram too much into what is essentially a buggy chassis but with an inherently undesirable high moment of inertia. Having said that and I know nothing of chassis design, the mini x raid looks basically unstable in that the centre of gravity seems ridiculously high off the ground .

[Gerard C]

I tend to agree with you but both the Mini and the Toyota -which are prototypes having only the name of the brand or model on it- are much longer than the Dacia. They are as you say high off the ground but its to be ponder ate with the suspension travel which is huge. Another thing to consider is the aero. May be the best compromise ATM is the Ford?

[justracing]

I may well have got some of my terminology wrong here, as I say I am certainly not a chassis designer but some of the cars look like road vehicles on steroids. I appreciate the necessity for ground clearance and suspension travel on this type of terrain but some of the basic principles seem to have been ignored.

[Gerard C]

Just out of curiosity, how is the TV coverage in your countries? Do you have a blond over-excited and pretty much vulgar female interviewer? During the stop of the 48 hrs chrono stage I thought she was about to make a "favor" to Nasser! Tonight she was eating… a banana at the end of her report!

[Gerard C]

Yes on steroids to say the least! Believe me, having been involved at some point, they are huuuuge vehicles. Its what surprised me when I saw for the first time a Pajero in the flesh. Well, in the carbon. As to aero it at started with strange wings added on the sire of the G class Mercs. Not new then.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Just out of curiosity, how is the TV coverage in your countries?

The dulcet and inimitable tones of Carlton Kirby on Eurosport in the UK are always amusing and fact filled providing you can keep up with his somewhat bemusing commentary.

[Gerard C]

OK, good for you. Here it sounds and looks like… Renault TV! Pauvre France. And the coverage totally ignores the codrivers. A real shame.

[Gerard C]

Cristina out, steering rack broken. There's a lot of work to do on those Dacia/Renault/Nissan.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Bent chassis for Loeb, its canned for him and Lurquin.

Looks like the stewards disqualified Loeb, but Dacia have appealed.

[Gerard C]

It will change nothing for the 25 edition, Loeb is about to catch a plane and go back home. But many interesting points have been made by Isnard,female Team Principal, and Lurquin Loeb's codriver. They accept the DSQ because rules are the rules but they raised that, as far as offroad racing is concerned, there's a need of slight change. I feel and hope this appeal will lead to a necessary evolution. Till now, afaik, nobody was injured or killed because he or she was driving or passenger of a race vehicle with a bent ROPS.
This is even more necessary with those ultimate buggies because in fact the rops is part of the chassis. Its not a road going Pajero fitted with a rops. FIA must learn this. One Day. Or another.

[Gerard C]

I also wonder how are the chassis of the 2 Toyotas having crashed into each other. Unlike Carlos' Ford, Loeb's chassis is bent not cracked. Lets imagine that in the future chassises and ROPS become impossible to damage, what kind of men and women will we see to race? Bulletproof people ? And will the instances send real engineers in the desert to check the cars? With special data and calculation tools.Supplied by the teams..

[NaBUru38]

2025 Dakar Rally - standings after stage 4:

Bikes

1. AUS Daniel Sanders (KTM), 25:15'
2. ESP Tosha Schareina (Honda), + 13'
3. BWA Ross Branch (Hero), + 26'
4. USA Skyler Howes (Honda), + 27'
5. USA Ricky Brabec (Honda), + 29'
6. FRA Adrien van Beveren (Honda), + 29'
7. CHI Pablo Quintanilla (Honda), + 33'
8. ARG Luciano Benavides (KTM), + 35'
9. CHI José Ignacio Cornejo (Hero), + 54'
10. ESP Lorenzo Santolino (Sherco), + 59'

T1 Ultimate

1. RSA Henk Lategan (Toyota), 23:36'
2. SAU Yazeed Al Rajhi (Toyota), + 6'
3. SWE Mattias Ekström (Ford), + 21'
4. FRA Mathieu Serradori (Century), + 30'
5. BRA Lucas Moraes (Toyota), + 33'
6. USA Mitchell Guthrie (Ford), + 34'
7. QAT Nasser Al-Attiyah (Dacia), + 35'
8. ARG Juan Cruz Yacopini (Toyota), + 41'
9. POR Joao Ferreira (Mini), + 1:11'
10. EST Urvo Männama (Mini), + 1:17'

T3 Challenger

1. ATG Nicolás Cavigliasso (Taurus), 25:32'
2. USA Corbin Leaverton (Taurus), + 25'
3. POR Gonçalo Guerreiro (Taurus), + 29'
4. NED Paul Spierings (Taurus), + 36'
5. ESP Pau Navarro (Taurus), + 1:17'

T4 SSV

1. USA Brock Heger (Polaris), 26:25'
2. FRA Xavier de Soultrait (Polaris), + 1:20'
3. POR Alexandre Pinto (Can-Am), + 1:29'
4. CHI Francisco López (Can-Am), + 2:22'
5. SUI Jérôme de Sadeleer (Can-Am), + 3:27'

T5 Trucks

1. CZE Martin Macik (Iveco), 26:08'
2. CZE Aleš Loprais (Iveco), + 45'
3. LTU Vaidotas Žala (Iveco), + 56'
4. NED Mitchel van den Brink (Iveco), + 1:16'
5. CZE Martin Soltys (Tatra), + 2:49'

[Gerard C]

Hey, Nabu, now you're coming! I was missing you. Thanks, nice job as usual. Go Lategan/ Cummings! Keep smiling Nasser TV's are here watching you playing Mr Niceguy…

[justracing]

Well done NaBUru38, excellent work

[Gerard C]

Pablo Moreno, Cristina' codriver, deserves a medal as mechanic. He' been giving help to Loeb/Lurquin and then he changed a rear wishbone to allow Al-Attiyah/ Boulanger to keep on going. Multifonction element Moreno!

[Gerard C]

T'was not a wishbone as announced but a half shaft and a camber bracket/rose joint. Several sources report that Carlos' chassis was badly damaged.

[Gerard C]

Wahoo, the riders have been fast during the second part of the marathon stage. Too fast may be, Van Beveren got a 2' penalty and Sanders 8' so far! The last one sounds huge.

[kurski]

They could surprise and show someone's stage live on the YouTube channel for everyone.

[NaBUru38]

2025 Dakar Rally - standings after stage 5:

Bikes

1. AUS Daniel Sanders (KTM), 30:20'
2. ESP Tosha Schareina (Honda), + 7'
3. BWA Ross Branch (Hero), + 17'
4. FRA Adrien van Beveren (Honda), + 18'
5. USA Skyler Howes (Honda), + 20'
6. USA Ricky Brabec (Honda), + 21'
7. ARG Luciano Benavides (KTM), + 24'
8. CHI Pablo Quintanilla (Honda), + 32'
9. CHI José Ignacio Cornejo (Hero), + 41'
10. ESPN Edgar Canet (KTM), + 1:01'

T1 Ultimate

1. RSA Henk Lategan (Toyota), 28:10'
2. SAU Yazeed Al Rajhi (Toyota), + 10'
3. SWE Mattias Ekström (Ford), + 21'
4. QAT Nasser Al-Attiyah (Dacia), + 35'
5. BRA Lucas Moraes (Toyota), + 41'
6. USA Mitchell Guthrie (Ford), + 42'
7. FRA Mathieu Serradori (Century), + 46'
8. ARG Juan Cruz Yacopini (Toyota), + 1:03'
9. USA Seth Quintero (Toyota), + 1:30'
10. FRA Guerlain Chicherit (Mini), + 1:38'

T3 Challenger

1. ATG Nicolás Cavigliasso (Taurus), 30:38'
2. POR Gonçalo Guerreiro (Taurus), + 28'
3. NED Paul Spierings (Taurus), + 33'
4. QAT Abdulaziz Al-Kuwari (Taurus), + 1:31'
5. SAU Dania Akeel (Taurus), + 1:37'

T4 SSV

1. USA Brock Heger (Polaris), 31:51'
2. FRA Xavier de Soultrait (Polaris), + 1:18'
3. POR Alexandre Pinto (Can-Am), + 1:34'
4. CHI Francisco López (Can-Am), + 2:00'
5. SUI Jérôme de Sadeleer (Can-Am), + 3:58'

T5 Trucks

1. CZE Martin Macik (Iveco), 31:10'
2. NED Mitchel van den Brink (Iveco), + 1:56'
3. CZE Aleš Loprais (Iveco), + 2:16'
4. CZE Martin Soltys (Tatra), + 3:39'
5. NED Martin van den Brink (Iveco), + 3:59'

[E.B]

Shame for Toby Price / Sutherland.... they were running so well for a first time with 4 wheels and looked to be in with a podium shout until various mechanical interventions. I put the curse on them by backing them for a podium.

As soon as I had done tht, I think they were affected with overheating in stage 3 that limited them to 130kph, and then the next stage broke an axle and had to wait 'hours' for the service truck.

I think they are still running albeit a few hours behind.
Edit: yes, just checked and they finished 11th in S5 and now lie 25th overall in Ultimate.

[Gerard C]

Bikes: Kevin Benavides retires from the rallye, sadly. The tablette-gate didn't last too long for Daniel Sanders and Adrien Van Beveren, their two penalties have been canceled. The new GPS/electonic road book device knows some issues on the bikes but the scrutiners did a good job (FIM and ERTF).
Van Beveren is now third. I don't know what kind of job the Honda team PR people did with the French rider but he's smiling now. Still moaning a bit but smiling, his style is "I'm happy,but…". Next on the list… Loeb!

[justracing]

Great shame to see Danilo Petrucci retire in the trucks on stage 5, although officially not a driver I think he may have been driving after hitting a rock and rolling the Italian entry. This guy is just unstoppable, talk about multi disciplined from Mal Moto to trucks in the Dakar whilst filling in time between motogp commitments.