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Old 11 Aug 2014, 02:09 (Ref:3443356)   #46
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Tucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by mountainstar View Post
I think it's a shameful day for motorsport. This sort of buffoonery rodeo clown type incident should not have happened and I think a lot of it goes back to this sort of behavior being approved and even encouraged by those running the show. And Nascar is one of the worst offenders.
Question is will Nascar do anything about it? I doubt it. From someone who occassionaly watches Nascar, this idea of "come to the race for fights and crashes" seems to be too deeply instilled in their marketing of the sport. In F1 if drivers fight they get penalties for bringing the sport into disrepute, yet in Nascar i've seen interviews with current and past drivers and other personnel who seem to actively encourage this behaviour.

As I said I don't live in the US or have ever stayed there so don't really know about the "Nascar Culture", but I don't understand how they can encourage drivers to completely disregard safety that should be common sense. (No offence to anyone on this forum, I put all of you in the "actual race fans" camp rather than the "come for a crash" camp)
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 03:09 (Ref:3443360)   #47
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Question is will Nascar do anything about it? I doubt it.
The race was under a different sanctioning body for starters so it's a tough call for NASCAR, especially if no charges arise from it. It's also a situation that has never arisen before which only makes it more difficult.

Personally, I think Tony may get forced into retirement from sponsors so NASCAR may be saved from making the touch choice.

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In F1 if drivers fight they get penalties for bringing the sport into disrepute, yet in Nascar i've seen interviews with current and past drivers and other personnel who seem to actively encourage this behaviour.
F1 drivers also have the personality on the level of stale bread. I'm not huge on drivers fighting, but I also can't remember the last time I actually bothered watching the post-race F1 conferences.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 03:15 (Ref:3443363)   #48
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I'm biting on this only because this is a very serious issue and some people's opinions are just wrong.

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Originally Posted by Razzzor View Post
To the people suggesting he accelerated (and it's clear he accelerated - it wasn't someone else off screen) to AVOID Ward? I don't buy that for second.
Have you ever driven a sprint car on a dirt track? You don't drive them like normal cars on a paved surface. In the past two days, I've seen comments from some people here and many others on other websites explaining how a sprint car is driven. Using the throttle is necessary to be able to control the car.

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Tony was clearly hot and ran up the track and drifted it to scare him, or maybe flick him with dirt.
Clearly? Where is your evidence then? Nothing about this is clear.

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I see the other perspective though, Ward should never have run on track, almost using his body to stop Stewart. That was ridiculously stupid. I guess from here on out a lot of series will come down much harder on drivers that attempt to confront another car on track, to avoid this situation ever happening again. Two hot-headed guys caught in the moment, only one had a deadly weapon at his disposal.
For the most part, I agree with you on this.

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To actually intentionally speed up alongside Ward, knowing by accelerating it's going to flick the car sideways, Tony really has to go up on manslaughter charges and should be found guilty.
Intentionally? Again, where is your evidence?
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 03:33 (Ref:3443367)   #49
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I'm biting on this only because this is a very serious issue and some people's opinions are just wrong.
You're biting but I'll continue to bite my tongue here and everywhere. The absolute conviction of people on this incident almost makes me as sick as the incident itself.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 04:02 (Ref:3443371)   #50
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Originally Posted by mountainstar View Post
I think it's a shameful day for motorsport. This sort of buffoonery rodeo clown type incident should not have happened and I think a lot of it goes back to this sort of behavior being approved and even encouraged by those running the show.
It is most definitely a sad and shameful day for motorsport in general - wherever fault may or may not lie, a young man has lost his life whilst competing in a sport he no doubt loved and it just feels so unnecessary.

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You're biting but I'll continue to bite my tongue here and everywhere. The absolute conviction of people on this incident almost makes me as sick as the incident itself.
Totally agree, all we have is poor quality footage from an inconclusive angle, with unattributed audio & all at night on a poorly lit track. How anyone can take a firm stance with such a lack of really clear evidence is beyond me.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 04:33 (Ref:3443375)   #51
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Razzzor.....thats the worst post I've ever seen on here.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 04:54 (Ref:3443379)   #52
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Thread title is right. "Tony (is) in trouble".

Regardless of what happened, and how it happened, and what actions he and Kevin Ward Jr took, Ward Jr is dead. I can't imagine for a second that Tony Stewart has an intention to kill anyone when on the track. Even if he is found culpable, I don't think anyone could pin it as premeditated or intentional.

So yes, Tony is in trouble. I dare say he would be quite a mess.

Also in "trouble" are Kevin Ward Jr's family, who will be struggling to deal with this plus the constant reminders from the media, the videos, the investigation to come, etc.

We can make our own judgements based on what we have read in the media and seen on the TV, but we don't have all the facts. Only the authorities will once they do a through investigation.

Perhaps a better focus for those who love motorsport is to consider what we can take from this to make the sport safer. Like punishing drivers who do reckless things (throwing helmets at cars, walking onto the track) and even suspending them if needed.

There also perhaps needs to be rules in place that when a driver is involved in an incident that results in a fatality, there is an instant period of suspension in order to allow investigations to occur and to allow sanctioning bodies to ensure that the driver is in a sound mental to participate and not be a danger.

Thoughts be with both Kevin Ward Jr, his family, and Tony Stewart and his family.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 06:36 (Ref:3443388)   #53
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What we know so far is:

1, A your 20 year old has died in horrible circumstances on a global stage.
2, His parents and family will be seeing pictures of this over and over again.
3, A world famous racing driver was involved meaning more coverage.
4, Tony Stewart will be feeling unimaginably bad (I WILL NOT go into the guilty/innocent argument). He was involved in this death and it was not a normal racing accident, he must have played it back in his head millions of times now and it will probably end his career. The incident was avoidable but that does not make it manslaughter or murder.

Some of the comments on this forum are slightly concerning as I thought the we were better then the normal "jump on the band wagon" types.

I have seen the video, I have no idea if Tony was responsible or not, I do not see how people on here can be 100% certain of guilt.

Maybe I am missing some major part of the video that has the onboard and telemetry that makes people certain......
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 06:54 (Ref:3443393)   #54
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Unlike some others I think it's laughable that anyone other than Tony Stewart knows what was going through Tony Stewart's head at that fateful time. Whilst i am unwilling to make a call on the incident, there is one thing that is a fact and that is that Tony Stewart's bully boy history is not a friend of his at this time.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 07:23 (Ref:3443399)   #55
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I do not see how people on here can be 100% certain of guilt.
They can't. All any of us can do is express an opinion.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 07:28 (Ref:3443401)   #56
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You're biting but I'll continue to bite my tongue here and everywhere. The absolute conviction of people on this incident almost makes me as sick as the incident itself.
Seconded!

Some people need to go and take a long hard look at themselves!
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 08:18 (Ref:3443408)   #57
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ok folks, you have already been warned once, but now I'm warning again.

To the majority of you who are discussing this issue sensibly and with respect, thank you and please continue. This is a subject that needs to be discussed in that way.

To the minority - opinion is not fact. You don't get to post your opinions as fact, and hysterical outbursts and wild accusations of motive are completely unacceptable.

Back to the majority to continue discussion!
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 08:42 (Ref:3443421)   #58
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(Take 2) Hello people!

So, in one corner you have BIARB, then you have the rest. And then there's Razzzor (thanks a lot for being rational and thinking your post through! It's the most reasonable post on here and ignore the hate. Your logic is totally correct at this current time).

BIARB was initially throwing a tantrum about how Tony Stewart killed someone. Almost everyone else then ridiculed him and said "how can we know" and "you’re stupid" and "use your brain," etc, etc, etc, etc, etc until he basically rage quit this thread. Whilst that is probably for the better, his actions and the subsequent actions by everyone else (hello Garcon!) were also pretty shocking examples on how pathetic humans can be to each other.

It seems to me that people are trying to deflect blame off of Stewart. Ward walked up to him, he couldn’t have seen him, he accelerated to avoid him (how does that even make sense on a low-grip venue? Going faster with less grip will result on less control unless the mass/downforce on the sprint car design forces more mass onto the wheels. Even so, accelerating from 3 yards out, that would make 0% difference). After all, how many of you have driven a night race at the particular venue in that particular type of Sprint Car in those conditions?

I am not saying you’re wrong, but I personally think that this is the natural thing to do. Stewart is an icon of the sport, and for him to have been involved in something like this is indescribable. This is natural for most people. Most of you guys are almost saying “this cannot have happened,” probably sub-consciously, and as a result come up with reasons why it wasn’t Stewart’s fault. Perhaps the officials should’ve dragged Ward away from the wreckage? Perhaps Ward should never have gone up to Stewart? Well, perhaps Stewart shouldn’t have hit the accelerator pedal. Nobody wins.

This is perfectly natural. I just think it’s time someone pointed it out, otherwise this thread won’t be about the incident, but about how Kevin Ward Jr killed himself by accident whilst trying to wind up Tony Stewart. I’m not in any way defending Ward, but I think it’s time somebody actually put the blame where it should lie – in both Stewart and Ward’s hands.

I’m not going to make any judgements of any sort on the incident other than to say that two wrongs do not make a right. Both drivers were in the wrong, and despite some of the posts on here, I think you all know that.

As more details get uncovered from this case, I want you all to remember this quote:
“If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude.”

Perhaps the fact will be tougher to face than you think. If it is, however, don’t come up with excuses. Just accept it.

And once more I must credit Razzzor for saving this thread from plummeting into the depths of human ignorance by considering both sides of the argument and then coming to a conclusion.

Have a good day! This is Josh signing out.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 09:15 (Ref:3443429)   #59
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THis is a blight on the world of motorsport, but, as some have posted, THis will be hard one to disect.

As a motorsport official , juducial, the video on the net is inconclusive.
It would be hard to make a judgement call now.

And all my years of watching , involved with motorsport, we have always been told, never, go onto a "hot Track".

SO I will await the authorites investigation and report. I feel sorry for both , Kevin and Tony, as no one ever wants to see this , irespective of where in the world it occured.

RIP Kevin
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 10:05 (Ref:3443440)   #60
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Originally Posted by Salamus View Post
I'm biting on this only because this is a very serious issue and some people's opinions are just wrong.

Have you ever driven a sprint car on a dirt track? You don't drive them like normal cars on a paved surface. In the past two days, I've seen comments from some people here and many others on other websites explaining how a sprint car is driven. Using the throttle is necessary to be able to control the car.

Clearly? Where is your evidence then? Nothing about this is clear.

For the most part, I agree with you on this.

Intentionally? Again, where is your evidence?
Well yeah it's all just speculation and opinion, none of us really know what was going trough Tony's head. Maybe he never even saw Ward at all.

Another reason he could have accelerated at that point may have been because he was trying to get away from Ward. Perhaps he thought Ward was going to throw something at the car (like his helmet) and stepped on it? Who knows.

No I've never driven a sprint car, but do you really need to throttle slide the car to get it around a corner at low speed under caution? High speed, sure, but low speed with another driver on foot right next to you? I wouldn't have thought so.
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